A big ask - Kiseruzutsu with poems/mei

[John C]

Hello:

I know this is a big ask, however I am really just trying to find out if the characters are Chinese or Japanese. But even a few words translated would get me started on researching.

Thank you very much for taking a look,

John C.

[YourBabyBjornBorg]

Hmm... The first one is 若无(無 in cursive)清風吹，香氣为(為 in cursive)誰發, part of the poem 古風·孤蘭生幽園 by 李白 Li Bai of the Tang dynasty.

 

Gemini suggested "If no gentle breeze blows, for whom would the fragrance spread?", feels close enough I guess!

 

(Edited again:

 

This is quite a poem upon a second read! One of the most classic themes recurring throughout Chinese poetry history,

 

that is not being appreciated in one's own time for their talent.

 

This poem was written in the autumn of the second year that Li Bai (arguably THE greatest Chinese poet ever) was called to the capital by the emperor himself,

 

one of the greatest honors and dream of every ambitious person in ancient China,

 

slandered by the emperor's favorite eunuch because Li would not kiss up to him, now growing apart from the emperor.

 

The poem pictures a lonely orchid (considered the gentleman's flower, signifying pure of heart and high moral standards)

 

overrun by weeds (the evil people in the court), once blessed with the sun's warmth (the emperor's favor), 

 

now loomed by the autumn moon(absent of sun and gleam future), experiencing frost and rain, 

 

and finally, "If no gentle breeze blows, for whom would the fragrance spread?" (one's talent is meaningless without the emperor's appreciation)

 

(孤蘭生幽園，衆草共蕪沒。雖照陽春暉，復悲高秋月。飛霜早淅瀝，綠豔恐休歇。若無清風吹，香氣爲誰發。)

 

↑ AI could probably translate this well, not me orz)

 

The signature on the bottom left is a little hard, I read 化 something 主人, so master of 化 something, a typical pseudonym of an old-timey Chinese or Japanese literatus.

 

Edited:

 

Forgot to add! Many well-educated Edo-period people read and write Chinese poems,

 

there are even quite a few examples where swordsmiths chisel Chinese poems onto swords (Nakago and/or sword itself).

 

But the bowl(?) in the first pic looks a little Chinesey to me. A good magnifier may tell if it's machine-made with a mini hand drill or laser-engraved. 

 

The middle one might not have anything actually intelligible on it.

 

The third one is too blurry to make out for me, perhaps someone trained in Chinese cursive could tell,

 

but I'm in my third weekly class in total and from which I haven't been for three weeks......

[John C]

Wow! That's great. Too bad it's Chinese - it was sold to me as Japanese. The part about the orchid and grass makes sense given what's on the top (see pic).

 

This gives me a lot of information to start researching. Thank you very much!

 

John C.

[Matsunoki]

@Bugyotsuji….Piers, what do you think?

Im still for Japanese especially with that lovely ivory “repair” (but that is not based on hard knowledge!)

[John C]

49 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

Im still for Japanese especially

I'm also leaning that way Colin as this form (separate tobacco-bon, zutsu, and ojime) seems to be distinctly Japanese based on the research I've done. But I also think that Baby Joe my be on to something that, if I may paraphrase, the maker was a fan of Chinese poetry.

 

John C.

[Bugyotsuji]

Been a bit busy lately so just reading this for the first time.
Japanese without question (all parts), as others have said above, but using Classical Chinese, just as Europeans might once have quoted ancient  Latin or Greek.

[John C]

Thank you, Piers, Colin, and Baby Joe. I was just reading up on kanshi. I appreciate everyone's input on this. 

 

John C.

Edited May 6 by John C

[Matsunoki]

It’s always worth remembering that a huge slice of Japanese art and imagery (of any variety from all periods) has been borrowed from or loosely based on earlier Chinese art/history. That includes religious figures, legends, general art styles and subjects etc

That can be very confusing at times but the usual giveaway is the unique aesthetic that the Japanese bring  to art. It is different to Chinese but takes a while to recognise. Also the Japanese pay meticulous attention to detail.

A good example is to compare Japanese netsuke with the modern Chinese stuff. Same applies with tsuba. Even very well carved Chinese pieces are artistically totally different.

it is difficult toexplain but Japanese often has a “softness” to it.

[MauroP]

1 hour ago, Matsunoki said:

a huge slice of Japanese art and imagery...

the vast majority of Japanese art and imagery... is closer to describe the reality.

[Tcat]

Great pipe. Plainly Japanese by virtue of execution. A very Chinese subject, yes, but as others have noted, in East Asia, all roads lead to China.  
 

I think the piece provides a nice opportunity to talk about the intriguing artistic trend it falls into, because it is an excellent example of a distinctly East Asian material aesthetic. A great deal of its beauty comes not merely from its form, but from its surface finish and “maturation” (aging, like a fine wine) through time, care, handling, and use. The coloration seen here, warm copper-browns, amber-black transitions, tea-toned lacquer hues, is part of a palette long prized in East Asian decorative arts. One sees the same shades in smoked bamboo tea utensils, rubbed walnut bracelets, old lacquerware, tiger-eye beads, darkened bronze, polished deer antler, and centuries-old furniture. They seem to evoke an aroma of autumn, smoke, earth, tea, resin, and slow oxidation - they are organic, “living” colors that speak to an artistic philosophy where time becomes a collaborator.

 

This sensibility is deeply rooted in Chinese academic and literati culture, especially the traditions surrounding 文玩 (wenwan), the appreciation of scholar’s objects whose surfaces evolve through repetitive touch and care. In this worldview, objects are not considered complete at the moment of manufacture, rather, they gradually mature and are “nourished” by human contact. Oils from the skin, exposure to smoke, incense, tea vapors, friction from cloth, humidity etc all contribute to the development of 包浆 (baojiang): the mellow, lustrous patina prized by collectors.

 

This concept certainly crossed over into Japan from China together with the wider genre of art, I propose as a sort of “way of seeing” or way of “appreciating” these objects to a greater degree. You get more bang for your buck from the thing if you’re encouraged to fixate, fiddle and baby it. The idea that the object becomes richer, darker, softer, and more spiritually intimate over time, as one invests one’s care and attention into it, is admittedly an alluring albeit romantic idea for me. There are even certain strict handling customs and beliefs associated with this “genre”, if you will, from the perspective of a purist. Discussing the topic with Chinese aficionados, it was noted several times to me that these sorts of objects are exclusively male oriented and should under no circumstances be handled by women, nor enter a bathroom or wash area.

 

Although many of these artistic sensibilities originated in China, Japan absorbed and transformed them through centuries of cultural exchange. Chinese influence, especially during the Tang dynasty, profoundly shaped early Japanese court culture, artistic imagery, decorative vocabulary, Buddhism, and material arts. Over time, Japan cultivated its own parallel sensibilities, especially through concepts such as shibui, sabi, and wabi, which favor subdued richness over brilliance and quiet depth over overt display.

 

This pipe reflects this genre wonderfully. Its artistry lies in tactility, atmosphere, and accumulated human presence. One undeniably romantic truth is this: following the notion that handling improves such an object, it is accurate to say that through years of touch and companionship, the connoisseur owner does in fact become part of the object’s final finish.

[John C]

Thank you for those insights, Alex. In the very little research I have conducted on this particular item, I came across the notion that there is a subtle connection between the poem's use of "mist" imagery and the smoke rising from the pipe. Fits with the artistic sensibilities your were noting. A lot going on here, to say the least.

 

John C.

[Tcat]

21 minutes ago, John C said:

A lot going on here, to say the least.

 

It's doing many things at the same time - part of why I commented and why I think its such a great example of the aesthetic genre.