N00b with a katana help

[zeugmax]

aaand one more thing. there was a tiny little etching on the inside of the hilt cap thingy. Please ignore my ignorance and look at the picture. lol.

[Jamie]

I am new to the forum.

You might want to get some choji oil and oil the blade up. That will at least stop further damage for now.

Then probably send it to someone qualified to evaluate if it's worth a polish.

[IanB]

Damien, The inscription on the reverse, or ura side, of the tang is a date. It starts with the year period Eiroku, which began in 1558 and finished in 1569 / 1570. The name of the year period is followed by a number of the year in that era. In this case it looks like 2 so the blade was made in the second year of Eiroku or 1570. The small scratched mark inside the hilt fitting is probably nothing more significant than a mark made by the guy assembling the sword from parts - so that the right fitting ended up on the right hilt.

Ian Bottomley

[estcrh]

aaand one more thing. there was a tiny little etching on the inside of the hilt cap thingy. Please ignore my ignorance and look at the picture. lol.

Damien, here is a link to a sword glossary, it will help with communicating the proper words for the parts of your sword to whoever you are talking with. http://members.shaw.ca/nihontonut/glossary.html

[Stephen]

Damien

I would like to see the area under the habaki, it often shows activity of the blades work, it protecting the area from corrosion and rust.

[zeugmax]

Thank you for the glossary link. i used it to find out what a habaki was i'll take some pictures again tonight. Wow, 1500s... pretty awesome

[estcrh]

Thank you for the glossary link. i used it to find out what a habaki was i'll take some pictures again tonight. Wow, 1500s... pretty awesome

Damien, people on the forum would be happy to see you pick up the correct names for all the various parts of your sword. 1500s if the date and signature were not added later in an attempt to fool someone...the mei on your sword can be compared to known examples to see if it looks the same, also the style of your sword can be compared to the style of the era it was supposed to have been made in to see it matches or if it is more modern. You have a lot of work left.

[estcrh]

Thank you for the glossary link. i used it to find out what a habaki was i'll take some pictures again tonight. Wow, 1500s... pretty awesome

If you dont mind telling how you came about finding this sword I am sure everyone would like to hear the story!!!

[Stephen]

Daimen

 

photo of the mei with out photo shop also, the date side looks like it may be that old. very interesting find. just a hunch (and ill take Ian's word for it as he has the history of these) this may have been a presentation sword to some diplomat in the early 20th Century?

[zeugmax]

The only reason i used photoshop is because it's kind of hard to make out the etchings, most of which are quite faded...many can only be seen well when the blade is turned in specific directions to catch the light. I used tools like sharpen and unsharp mask, and some other variations and light levels to bring it out more, because with my lack of ability to recognize Japanese writing, i was hoping it would be easier for you guys to see and understand what kanji it was. i'll post non-altered photos for you this evening, along with pics of what the blade under the habaki.

 

by the way, i want to thank you all for taking interest and schooling me with my sword. It's fascinating me more and more.

 

The sword belonged to a distant relative, who was either a sailor or in the navy probably during the korean war, and he brought it home during his overseas travel. I found it when the family was clearing out the house, and no one had any stories to tell about it, unfortunately. i'm in the dark on this .

[Stephen]

Daimen

 

Your doing fine, alot better than other Nubi, if you have a scanner you can place it on it and cover it with a dark background and scan it. Please full tang shots. Reading back yes the blade can be restored to its full glory and you'll be very happy with the results. its going to set you back money wise and it may never give you full return, but you will have saved a bit of history.

please tell me you have oiled it down a tad. awaiting tonights pix.

[zeugmax]

i don't have any special oil to use. is there any household stuff i can use in the meantime?

[Stephen]

3in1 or mineral oil, in a pinch veg oil as long as its all wiped off and not put back into saya or tsuka.

[Nobody]

The inscription on the reverse, or ura side, of the tang is a date. It starts with the year period Eiroku, which began in 1558 and finished in 1569 / 1570. The name of the year period is followed by a number of the year in that era. In this case it looks like 2 so the blade was made in the second year of Eiroku or 1570. ..............

Allow me to correct a minor error.

The 2nd year of Eiroku era was 1559.

 

永禄ニ年八月日 – a day in the 8th month of the 2nd year of Eiroku

[estcrh]

i don't have any special oil to use. is there any household stuff i can use in the meantime?

plain mineral oil...not baby oil..unscented

[IanB]

Daimen, Both John and Nobody have pointed out my boo-boo with the date. I had quoted the terminating date for Eiroku and then just added the digit to that instead of the start year. As I said to John, time to drag me off to the retirement home for the terminally idiotic. Sorry Daimen Mea Culpa.

Ian Bottomley

[Stephen]

Ian dont be so hard on yourself, you give much more good info than goofs, do you think this could be a gift to some up and up in the 20 Century?

[zeugmax]

hey, the earlier the better

 

I'll look into mineral oil tonight.

 

Damien

[IanB]

Stephen, I assume you mean was the sword made specifically as a gift. The answer is definitely no. This style of mounting was obviously made for the tourist trade with their implication that they had something to do with the ex-shogun. I have seen quite a few examples over the years, all using the exact same stamped brass plates with the Tokugawa kamon, all fitted onto the wood saya and tsuka by brass bands. Some appear to have been finished by gilding the mon and silvering the backgound but most I have seen have been just polished brass. I did see a tanto in which the brass bands were engraved with karakusa, presumably to made it a bit more appealing. I used to have a book written by the Bishop of Durham who visited Japan in the early Meiji period, but gave it to Nikko Toshogu since he devoted most of a chapter to visiting the shrine. He noted that the antique and curio shops in Edo / Tokyo had a surplus of armours and swords that they were struggling to sell at any price. He stated that he bought several armours and swords at ridiculously low prices and had them shipped home.

Ian

[zeugmax]

Is the sword outer style a match a blade made in the 1500s? I have tried doing some internet searches for similarly-styled katanas and was unable to find anything quite like this one. Not saying it's unique..just that i haven't seen anything. Have you guys? Also, is it common to see etchings on both sides of the tang?

[Jamie]

Zeug,

 

It's a Tachi Mount. The mount it's in wouldn't have been overly common from the time the blade is supposedly from.

And it is common to see Kanji( the etchings you are describing) on both sides.

If you can, measure the Blade- From the point to the Habachi(metal Collar) notch and post your finding. That's where the metal collar meets the blade on the back side(mune). Literally the notch that the Habaki sits in.

 

Someone translated the signature to be BishU Osafune Sukesada Right?

Well that signature can mean a couple of things. To have some idea, you'd need to know the date it was forged.

Usually swords signed That way were bundled literally and sold in bulk for war.

But from what I understand- many signed that way earlier than the late 1500's can be good swords. I am fairly new to collecting so I have limited knowledge here. I was looking at purchasing a Tanto signed that way though so I did some research on those smiths recently. I wouldn't think a low level blade would be in a tachi mount- but they are saying(other members) that they have seen them that were sold as tourist items. So I am unsure.

The blade would need to be looked at by someone qualified and they could give you more info than anyone looking at pictures of it. Then you'd also know if it would take a polish or not as well.

[zeugmax]

The exposed blade is 29 inches long. i compared it to a friend's modern katana and it was about 2 inches longer.

 

Anyway, here are the pictures of the tang, after a light coat of veg oil on it. i will get mineral oil tomorrow and go over it again. The rust became darker when i did this, but i think that's ok, right? that makes sense it would do that.

 

I included what the blade looks like under the habaki. None of the pictures have been touched up, so good luck trying to read the etchings....

 

Thanks!

[Lee Bray]

Veg oil is not good.

I recently restored a friends Sgian Dubh that belonged to his Grandfather.

He had no mineral oil to hand and had used margarine to 'oil' the blade.

The blade became so badly rusted because of it that it was stuck inside its scabbard.

 

There's a reason substitutes are not used. Research sword care, please.

[Jamie]

This why I Pm'd you and suggested Choji oil.

it's the best.

[John A Stuart]

I've touched it up a bit. Still my eyes can't make it out much. ?shu Naga??sada Saku. Cripes!! John

[Stephen]

lets not get our undies in a bunch, veg oil is not going to cause ruin, do a search here and youll see its what old choji was made with back in the day. John must not have been reading the whole thread all ready fig out its Bishu Osafune Sukesada.

 

Jamie and Lee

 

lets tell him what we see from the new pix, hows the hamachi, what is the hamon? lets work together to pin point the blades work.

[Lee Bray]

lets not get our undies in a bunch, veg oil is not going to cause ruin, do a search here and youll see its what old choji was made with back in the day. John must not have been reading the whole thread all ready fig out its Bishu Osafune Sukesada.

 

Jamie and Lee

 

lets tell him what we see from the new pix, hows the hamachi, what is the hamon? lets work together to pin point the blades work.

 

I think you're adding meaning to my words, Stephen. My undies are just fine and I don't see that I was rude in my post.

Choji 'back in the day' is probably far removed from a modern day spray on Pam.

Can you honestly say you know the ingredients for all current vegetable oils?

No, neither can I. Hence why I suggest not using it and sticking with known oils.

My friend did far more damage to his blade by using margarine than if he had left it alone.

 

Zeugmax - no offence was intended by my post, if indeed you took it that way. I was merely pointing out my own experience.

[John A Stuart]

:lol: Not only my eyes are failing Stephen, but, my short term memory, if I disremember rightly. John

[zeugmax]

I'm not offended, but enough about the oil for now. i intend to fix it immediately....let's move forward and talk about the sword. Can you see anything? Does the quality of the etching show age? Now do you see why i used photoshop?

[Stephen]

The blade shows age, the hamaci shows us theres room for polish, the hamon is suguba(which is a clue as most bizen where choji but not all) the nakago jiri is bizen which goes with the mei, it is also ubu not cut down which helps with the value. In the late 1500's there was a mass prouductions of bizen blades which used Bishu Osafune as has been pointed out. so after i do some reading about who used suguba homon in Bishu ill get backt to ya, dont sell ehe blade short because some make it out to be Kazuuchimono (mass produced ) ....photo shop is not needed we know what it says. pix is still not facing the nakago but off to the side. is the rest of the blade in all rust? if the hamon changes from suguba to choji id like to see it and if you can see any actvity between the rust such as grain pattern.

 

edit to add cropped and rotated pix