Jacques D. Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Hi, Instead of showing of some old papers wouldn't there be better to show some good closeups of the nakago? I fully agree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric H Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Yes, and I would like also to see a close up of the Kissaki section, Kiyondo is known for a unique trait there. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reikoto Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Like you no old papers? Do old papers scratch? 来古刀, Ronny A God is a human if he dreams, a beggar if he thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bray Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 You promote your items well, Ronny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric H Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Like you no old papers?Do old papers scratch? Well, you promoted two times this Kiyondo. Do not divert please it's not a question of papers but a completion of a multiple requests for close ups of the Nakago and the Kissaki, both sides please. This should be quite easy, you have the pics, we would like to have them for proper examination. Any sword in this price range merits to be studied carefully. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reikoto Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Dear Mr.Hugelhofer, Are you interests to buy the Tanto? Do you distrust the NBTHK papers? An historical fact: Some years ago a Kiyomaro Katana was auctioneered with the auctionhous Klefisch Cologne Germany for approx. DM 4000. All German experts e.g. Michael H., Hajo E. etc. said the sword is gimei (Because cannot be, which may not be) . An Japanese dealer bought it for DM 4800 and the sword got Jujo in Japan. I am not keen on sayings how: ..... one way could be to get new papers from NBTHK AND give the buyer the "send sword retour" option ..... And an egg from Wal-Markt. I collect swords since 1973. I was member of the NBTHK, NTHK, JSSUS and the Netherlands Token Society and now I become a Tengu. My Mentor was Han Bing Siong one of the best sword connoisseurs in Europe. Some years ago I had a Gassan Sadakatsu Tachi from the Compton collection on ebay. A NMB member wrote fake Gassan on ebay! If you are an teachers at a girls school and a colleague write: Is Mr. Müller pedophiel? What do you think does happen? The fore one should deal with such statements very carefully! Eric, if you are interests to buy the tanto, you can come to my house, as the attorney from Hong Kong, which bought the Gassan Sadakatsu. 来古刀, Ronny A God is a human if he dreams, a beggar if he thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbvac Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I rest my case - trust only yourself and your abilities to KNOW what is what - as well as any other. If in doubt - don't buy - or if you like and you get the right vibes go for it - buyer beware :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric H Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Are you interests to buy the Tanto?Do you distrust the NBTHK paper Let's be factual. I know the two Gentlemen personally whose expertise reportedly was wrong, the true experts are located in Japan. As you say your mentor was Han Bing Siong, at that time a highly respected sword connoisseur, whose detailed contributions in the NBTHK-journal I remember well. So I guess you are Mr Roy Echtermeijer...if not, no harm has been done by naming him. I have only asked, together with others, for some close ups, the provided pictures on the ebay-site are too small for accurate interpretation. No, I have no intention to buy your Kiyondo... I have already one... :lol: Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Ronny (is that your real name?) When an admin deletes your post for promoting your own item in a thread, that is not an invitation to post that item again. Please do not hijack the thread. You have only proved the rule that real "masterpieces" are rare to non-existent on eBay. If you have an idea you have a really good item, then to put it on eBay is either very silly, or a waste. Especially with all those listing fees when it doesn't sell. eBay is for cheap junk, and mid level swords. Good stuff sells in Japan, at shows, or in high end auctions like the one you mentioned in Germany. The fact that there have been a few good items sold on eBay out of hundreds of thousands, only shows the exception that proves the rule. I don't trust many old papers on eBay. I somehow feel that the sellers feel the same way. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I don't trust many old papers on eBay. My Boss, who is American, would say :"It sucks", but I don't know what means this expression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reikoto Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Dear Members, My name is Reinhold, Ronny Koziel. I am an electronics development engineer at Siemens Westinghouse and now retired. I collect Japanese swords since 1973 and would like to reduce my collection. I have entrance to many nuclear power stations in the world e.g. the USA Comanche Peak south of Dallas (2 units) and Cristal River norts of Tampa and all in Germany. I have a duration work permission for the USA and am security examined by CAI and FBI in USA and BKA in Germany. I have also lots of good friends in the USA and around the world. I mention that, if you do not trust me google to Reinhold-Koziel. No I become a Tengu and Sucker. OK. You would not like that I promot my own item in a thread, ok, it should suggest only the experts to the discussion. But I think it is better than: Did you see that? I have, but I ate straight Trüffel! Oh well, I ate never Trüffel! Gimei sword on ebay! The Nakago is too bright for a sword of 1940! The steel is too bright, it is machines a blade! There are old papers! Old papers are bad, I do not trusts them! Trust you new papers! No the people of the NBTHK are corrupt! Do you trust NTHK paper? No there are two organizations, which is the correct one and which opinion is the correct one? Mumei sword on ebay NBTHK paper mumei den Sukesada or Jumjo. Which generation ? Why are so many holes in the nakago? Because the swords were only weapons/tools and the previous owners did not respect them. The Japanese have it understood to sell their old iron very expensively to the gaijins . Japanese swords are a branch of industry in Japan. From there the controversy under the organizations. Everyone would like to earn at most. In my collecting I have a horseshoe of the horse of general Custer of the battle at the Little Bighorn and a hoseshoe of Don Quijotes Rosinante with papers of the Spanish yard riding school Vienna . Price is US$ 10000 each. 来古刀, Ronny A God is a human if he dreams, a beggar if he thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbkmd43 Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 there are taikans on kiyomaro please do more reading before spending money on such gimei blades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John A Stuart Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Hi Guys, I don't understand where this thread is going. A lot of people don't know each other from Adam and some only by brief association otherwise. A discussion about a particular sword must be done illustrating why a particular opinion has been arrived at, not just blanket statements about certain dealers or papers, but, on specific merits or dismerits of the sword in question. If someone doubts that a sword has been made by a certain smith then explain why and have something to illustrate why that conclusion has been arrived at. In this way people can learn and understand and have the opportunity to revise their opinion if proved in error or able to rebut an argument. Anything else is superfluous and valueless in this, our study. Now, what sword is this thread about again? The Kiyomaro, the Kiyondo?? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug e lewis Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 all i have heard much vitriol and angst over a blade that has not even been seen. i have not been collecting since 1973; or 1980, or what have you. i have one sword, an ichikuzu of the Uda school, ca. 1560 --- or so a sayashi friend of mine [who some of you may know -- Mike V. in Pasadena -- suggested after a brief look. as soon as i fix my leaking roof i will post pictures for comment and ridicule. as i did with the tsuba & meuki it was mounted with. but without seeing a photo of the blade in question in this thread, then why all the attitude and hot air. [me included] IMHO doug e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinhard Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Forget about Taikans and hi-res pics. No serious collector will buy a KIYOMARO blade before seing it in his own hands. I've seen about a dozen of his best blades in hand, including the one he made for Kubota Sugane, presently Juyo Bijutsuhin. You are losing yourselves in virtual, meaningless discussions. reinhard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 i have not been collecting since 1973; or 1980, or what have you Shame on you Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug e lewis Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I know, Jean, very sad but i did read early Japanese poetry, Tale of Genji, Basho, and some histories before i was 18; started my training in Shoto-kan karate-do in 1972; then was given Yoshindo Yoshiarwa's wonderful book by a friend who does metal restoration of nihonto in 1988 --- then i was hooked. nihonto --- like climbing Mt. Fuji. a long, hard, slow trip, but the view is worth it. doug e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I think this one has run its course, and I think this is the last debate I will allow about Komonjo/papers/eBay. Basically..to sum up: Do NOT expect to find a masterpiece on eBay for a bargain. Do NOT expect that bargains coming with old papers would paper again the same way. If they do...lucky. But they probably won't. You do NOT (NOT!) buy a seriously good blade and spend a considerable amount of money without at least seeing the sword in hand, unless you know the dealer is reputable with a straightforward returns policy without conditions. If you can afford that league of sword...you can probably afford the plane ticket. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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