Japanese WW2 Era Navy Kai Gunto, curious on your thoughts

[Kintepro]

I recently picked up this Navy Kai Gunto from the seller "Showa22" on ebay. Now, I have read that he occasionally sells some suspicious pieces, but he does have 100% feedback and a no questions return policy, so I can get my money back if need be. I first thought this sword looked pretty good, though perhaps a bit of an aggressive cleanup of the blade, but on further inspection, I have found some things that appear suspicious.

 

First, there is what looks to be a delamination along the hamon.

 

Secondly, the Fuchi is very loose over the hilt once disassembled. I cannot imagine that is original.

 

The pommel/sarute are also a bit loose.

 

Another user  on reddit suggested that it might be a "put together" sword with some original parts but perhaps not originally from the same sword.

 

The tsuba and seppa are not numbered as far as I can see.

 

The hanger fittings on the saya are slightly loose. The tsuba/seppa are slightly loose as well but it may just need a new dowel (mekugi?).

 

What are your guys' thoughts on the piece? The sale price was $1750 + shipping/tax. Based on the small number of examples I could find, I think that is reasonable if it's original but if it's just a put together sword I may end up returning it.

 

Here is also a drive link with a video of the fuchi and more pictures. Most of my pictures are too high resolution and don't want to post.

 

 https://drive.google...whzsWKdl-VXknFVGJhza

 

[Kintepro]

Some more pictures of the tang.

[Brian]

Nakago shinogi line is wavy, I have not seen that in a decent sword. Hamon looks clearly to me to be oil quenched, which is confusing given the ware. That ware is not good. Not fatal, but will bother you forever.
I would return it. That blade was also completely rusted at some point and polished. Lots of pits left over. It's a no for me.

[Bruce Pennington]

That is a considerable amount of play in the fuchi!  Before seeing it, I was going to point out that wood can dry and create some looseness in parts, like the haikan (hanger ring), but that fuchi is way too loose, IMHO, to be original.  

[Kiipu]

I did not see it mentioned, so translated the name of the swordsmith.

平田秀光 = Hirata Hidemitsu.

 

A link to one of his blades in a naval mount.

Sword in Naval Mounts

 

And another with a mystery anchor stamp.

Nakago Stamp

[Tensho]

I don't like it. He's known for messing with blades and acid etching them. Can clearly be seen here. 

 

I have personally been outbid on gunto from private sellers and seen them relisted by him all touched up i.e rust removed, acid enhanced hamon etc.. I don't know why he feels the need to do it on everything. 

 

BTW, if a seller allows returns on eBay you CANNOT leave negative feedback. If they sell high volume/value items they can easily get them removed within minutes too. 

[dyn]

1750 is a lot for a showato, even a kai gunto. Imo the acid polish (which showa22 is known for) is terrible and ruins the blade. Also they like to take blurry pictures to hide imperfections. I picked up a kai gunto (also off of ebay) for 1200 out of Japan earlier this year. I believe it is a showato as well (not 100% certain) but regardless it was in better condition than what's seen in the pics here.

 

Tip: You can check the "sold listings" in ebay to check the prices of other kai gunto. I see many that have sold for less without the pits in the blade. eg: https://www.ebay.com/itm/226264810677

 

 

[Kintepro]

On 9/11/2024 at 9:19 PM, Tensho said:

I don't like it. He's known for messing with blades and acid etching them. Can clearly be seen here. 

 

I have personally been outbid on gunto from private sellers and seen them relisted by him all touched up i.e rust removed, acid enhanced hamon etc.. I don't know why he feels the need to do it on everything. 

 

BTW, if a seller allows returns on eBay you CANNOT leave negative feedback. If they sell high volume/value items they can easily get them removed within minutes too. 

Well, that explains a lot lol...

 

19 hours ago, dyn said:

1750 is a lot for a showato, even a kai gunto. Imo the acid polish (which showa22 is known for) is terrible and ruins the blade. Also they like to take blurry pictures to hide imperfections. I picked up a kai gunto (also off of ebay) for 1200 out of Japan earlier this year. I believe it is a showato as well (not 100% certain) but regardless it was in better condition than what's seen in the pics here.

 

Tip: You can check the "sold listings" in ebay to check the prices of other kai gunto. I see many that have sold for less without the pits in the blade. eg: https://www.ebay.com/itm/226264810677

 

 

Thank you for the tip. I'm looking at another one on the bay for 1500 beans. It is a Kanezane factory showato blade. It is in decent shape but has some small amounts of staining, a few chips, and what might have been pitting... I may hold off and try to find one in better shape. The one you linked to looks really nice! That was a good deal for ebay.

https://www.ebay.com...174627&segname=11051

[Alaen]

Spoiler

I don't like it. He's known for messing with blades and acid etching them. Can clearly be seen here. 

 

I have personally been outbid on gunto from private sellers and seen them relisted by him all touched up i.e rust removed, acid enhanced hamon etc.. I don't know why he feels the need to do it on everything. 

 

BTW, if a seller allows returns on eBay you CANNOT leave negative feedback. If they sell high volume/value items they can easily get them removed within minutes too

.            Hi agree with you I have seen sword sold from another controversial seller komonjo and weeks later realists by Showa 22 and actually sold for doble of the initial price, i buy and return one sword in shirasaya at high price that tuned to be gimei motohira thanks to a friend here and later he realist we a different koshirae so he do all this tricks before and continues 

[dyn]

2 hours ago, Kintepro said:

Well, that explains a lot lol...

 

Thank you for the tip. I'm looking at another one on the bay for 1500 beans. It is a Kanezane factory showato blade. It is in decent shape but has some small amounts of staining, a few chips, and what might have been pitting... I may hold off and try to find one in better shape. The one you linked to looks really nice! That was a good deal for ebay.

https://www.ebay.com...174627&segname=11051

I would personally pass on that one as well due to the chips in the hamon. Just wait for the right sword, they will come up. The one I got was not too different from the ebay link I sent you, it had a minor fukure but was otherwise in great shape with no rust and no chips on the hamon. Given that these are newer swords it's a lot easier to find one without flaws compared to koto or shinto. I would wait for the right sword.