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Stamped numbers on habaki


ottou812

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I know that stamped numbers on the habaki means that the sword in question is most likely a fake. The numbers that appear on this particular habaki looks different that the ones on a typical gunto fakes. This habaki was on a wakazashi with matching fittings (tsuba, saya and fk). Perhaps someone put a different habaki on this particular wak. The habaki fit the wak pretty well so it got me thinking. Maybe the wak is a chinese fake. Looking at the blade itself makes me think it's not a chinese fake. I will post pictures of the wak with the koshirae later in the another thread.

 

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Doesn't look like the usual fake's numbers. This looks like it was stamped by someone, much later for some reason, and I expect the sword will be genuine.

That said, we don't have much to go on, and I doubt whether anyone can judge a shoshin blade from a fake by the habaki just yet :lol:

 

Brian

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  • 11 years later...
  • 2 weeks later...
4 hours ago, Infinite_Wisdumb said:

same Fuchi as the ones above...

 

Jesse,

Thanks for the link.  This one is TRYING to look like the ones above, i.e. Army fuchi, but failed badly.  Now I don't know what to think about this one.  I knew the habaki looked crude, from the beginning.  At best, this is something made in China during the war, late in the war.  We have been dealing with the topic for some time.  Without better pics of the blade and nakago, it's impossible to say if this falls into that group or is just fakery. (pics posted to save for future when auction site is lost)

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Screenshot 2021-01-20 092055.jpg

 

 

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9 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Thanks Steve!  Added to my files.  It's the first on I have in the survey from a Type 95.

 

While I would love to say this was some unique or missing model of Type 95, Bruce, I think it would be more accurate to lump it with the generic 'catch-all' term 'Island sword'.

 

When I removed the handle, the nakago was quite mutilated. It initially looks well made and possibly Japanese in make along with file marks... but a few inches down there is damage, de-lamination and large hammer strike marks. It may be a repaired blade?

 

It did have matching numbers to the habaki stamped on the nakago, 21.

I'll post a new thread for discussion rather than hijack this one.

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The saya fits the late-war navy pattern, late-war in general as here is a late-war army gunto with the same setup HERE.  The tsuka looks old, can't speak to the tsuba, but civil.  I want to say it's a civil sword re-fitted with late-war navy military, but that nakago is crude.  The Chinese have a habit of marking the nakago with a single kanji and stamping numbers on the habaki.  While this could be fakery, I'm still leaning toward a late-war navy re-fit, possibly with a blade made in occupied lands.

 

Can you give us a full-length, naked blade and close-ups of blade tip and a shot of the hamon?

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16 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

The saya fits the late-war navy pattern, late-war in general as here is a late-war army gunto with the same setup HERE.  The tsuka looks old, can't speak to the tsuba, but civil.  I want to say it's a civil sword re-fitted with late-war navy military, but that nakago is crude.  The Chinese have a habit of marking the nakago with a single kanji and stamping numbers on the habaki.  While this could be fakery, I'm still leaning toward a late-war navy re-fit, possibly with a blade made in occupied lands.

 

Can you give us a full-length, naked blade and close-ups of blade tip and a shot of the hamon?

attached @Bruce Pennington - best i got

blade 2.jpg

blade 3.jpg

blade1.jpg

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Wartime polish.  Looks Japanese to me.  Reminds me of my late-war Type 95 in workmanship.  An honest effort, but likely rushed.  I wish I knew blade terms, but that line that runs down the side, isn't precise.  My 95 blade is that way.

 

I dropped the kanji on the nakago on the Translation Help Forum, to see if it's identifiable.

 

There was a heroic, and honestly hard to comprehend, push in '44 and '45 to drastically increase sword production.  Here's a chart on just Type 95 production.  We know that Allied bombing had taken a huge toll on mainland sword production and so the industry was pushed into occupied China and other places.  So imagine these "offshore" shops who weren't prepared anything like the mainland shops for such a demand, being asked to produce MORE blades than the mainland shops had ever produced!  On top of that, the Army loosened quality control standards in an effort meet the demand.

This blade and gunto rig doesn't surprise me in the least.

Type95ProductionChart.JPG

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  • 2 months later...
12 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Here’s an unusually large number on a legit civil sword converted for the war:

 

image.thumb.jpeg.e4df33e4d66cf9d5219d039e85eac034.jpeg

 

found Here.

 

For me it is a replacement fake habaki and saya. The sword looks assembled together from parts. The story sounds nonsense to me like the most storys about captured bring back swords and then they lying around in the garage. But i understand that everyones grandfather was a hero.

 

Now that trophy is in a cruel condition. Dirty with a lot of fingertips. 

 

 

 

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 I was going to post elsewhere, but thought it more relevant here. In Western armies officers bought their swords privately, and NCO's had them issued, and the two types are distinctive and separate, but....

Officers swords for the (British) Imperial Indian Army sometimes turn up with the stamps and numbers seen on NCO swords. The best guess among collectors is that these are swords bought in bulk by the administration, and then issued or sold to native Indian Officers who could not buy their swords directly for one reason or another. I suggest that stamped habaki on genuine Shin Gunto possibly have a similar story behind them.

 

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  • 1 month later...
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

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