Real or Fake type 95 NCO

[Johnbull]

Seen this nco sword and hoping someone can tell me if it's genuine or not please.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

It’s legit

[Johnbull]

Thanks Bruce, 

[drb 1643]

It also looks like the scabbard May have be renumbered to match.

Tom

[Bruce Pennington]

Even the Kokura stamp seems to have been a re-stamp.  Unique piece.

[vajo]

I'm not sure with this. 

Maybe overcleaned? Fuchi, Tsuba Habaki looks like the others we discussed. No patination. 

The pictures of the tsuka shows not enough details to judge it.

 

I think it's not genuine.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, vajo said:

Maybe overcleaned?

I think that is what is causing your concern.  I have seen several like this, where an owner didn't realize that his "cleaning" efforts were removing original patina and coloration (I made this mistake early on, but realized the damage quickly before I went too far).

[Kiipu]

Chris, the sword is legitimate and as you & Bruce stated "overcleaned."

 

Tom, the style of the 3 indicates this was a factory overstamp from 105187 to 105308 and not something done at a later date.  For example, compare the style of the numbers between the sword above to the one at Type 95 NCO Shin Gunto.

 

Not sure what is going on with the arsenal logo but it does not look like a doublestrike to me.  Maybe @Stegel & @Shamsy will have a different "impression" of the logo.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Kiipu

[Bruce Pennington]

Plus, I have never seen anyone even try to fake the Seki Shten stamp. This one is not a fake stamp.

[Stegel]

The Seki logo appears to have been struck with a Heavy hand in my opinion, as does the Kokura logo as well as a partial double Stike

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Stegel said:

Seki logo appears to have been struck with a Heavy hand

I agree.  Sunken stamps are often a sign of fakers.  But have you ever seen a Seki Shoten logo on a fake?  If it's fake, then I surrender the battle against them, as this one is perfect.

[robinalexander]

For interest ..... it sold on Ebay for US$660 plus an inflated postage cost of US $72 (AUD $1020)

 

Unusually, only one bidder. 

 

19 hours ago, vajo said:

I'm not sure with this

I agree with Chris' comment above.

Sword and saya look ok to me but what I dont like is the fuchi (all of it) and re-numbered stamp on the saya throat.

 

Why didn't the seller include the blade inspection stamp WITH the blade number (last pic)?

 

Original or not (?) I just wouldn't be happy with it.

 

Rob

 

 

 

[Kiipu]

1 hour ago, robinalexander said:

For interest ..... it sold on Ebay for US$660 plus an inflated postage cost of US $72 (AUD $1020)

 

Can you provide the eBay link as I would like to see the auction pictures.

 

FYI, the 名 inspection mark comes before the serial number and can be seen in the second to last picture posted above by John.

[robinalexander]

1 hour ago, Kiipu said:

FYI, the 名 inspection mark comes before the serial number and can be seen in the second to last picture posted above by John

Thanks Thomas....my lack of attention to detail....no probs with blade/numbering.

 

Sorry I cant provide any Ebay link as it finished day before yesterday I think and I only had it on Watch List out of interest.   I am not aware if u you can search Ebay forr closed items....dont think so.

 

From memory, pics were the same as originally posted by John B but may be not be complete 'set'.

 

Rob

[Johnbull]

Few more pics added.. after speaking with the owner before I purchased it, it had been cleaned.  He informed me his father brought it back from WW2 when he was stationed at Papua New Guinea while in the Navy. Been in his possession since his father passed over 30 years ago. None of this was in the listing 

guessing that due to over clean condition other potential buyers thought it dodgy & left it.  It's local to my area so no postage but starting/final price was as mentioned $660 USD.

It is missing 1 screw cap head? So if anyone can put me onto someone in Australia to get 1 from would be great.

 

 

Thank you all for your opinions.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Dan Watson, at Crimson Mist Military Antiques - https://www.cmmilitaryantiques.com/  - might be someone to check with.

 

@Shamsy and @Stegel both have extensive collections.  Don't know if they keep extra parts, but you could ask them.

[Johnbull]

Thanks again Bruce..

[vajo]

Thanks for the additional pictures John. Bruce & Thomas are right it's legit. 

The Tsuka has a positive pattern and the Seppa shows the blossoms. 

Maybe you have a contact to repatinate the habaki, tsuba and fuchi with niage?

 

[Shamsy]

Would be nice to see clear photos of the fuchi, bit dark. The stamps on the fuchi just look to me like they have some impact marks around them. Not sure it's anything more. Sometimes deep dents look a little like stamps. The re-stamped saya is a nice oddity really. Would only be a guess but maybe the wrong numbers were put on first, maybe the original saya was lost... who knows. 

 

Wasn't going to comment since Bruce and Tom pretty much answered the question in their posts, but hey, there's my two cents.

[BANGBANGSAN]

It's legit