Opinion on Tsuba - With Pictures

[bullpuppy]

Just saw these and like to know if they are athentic and relative value.

[Mantis dude]

tim,

 

I think at least 1 and 3 may be cast or of poor quality. Not sure about the 2nd one. Not sure where you are seeing these but I would suggest looking at some high quality tsuba so you can get a better look at what quality or excellent execution can look like. MFA (musuem of Fine arts in boston has some online). Not sure if you have been to Jim Gilbert's site, a must read. Rich Stein has a lot links to help. Of course the best site is mine (haha)

There are so many variations, but I think you can online get a sense of what doesn't at least look real or is "crap". I don't very often and haven't handled anywhere near enough to tsuba to have an appreciable knowledge, but I have noticed a slight improvement in noticing the junk. Actually owning a few higher quality pieces has helped. In sum ways sukashi work and kinko work are different worlds. But the basic defining qualities of excellence are similiar. Someone will have to chime in since I can't remember the exact name of the book but it is a translation by Robert Haynes of tsuba expert which covers most major schools. I think the Northern California Japanese Sword Club sells it. The introduction relates what you should look for in quality and at least gives a framework. Then looking at better pieces will help fill in some gaps.

 

Sorry got off point abit but I think my suggestions as confusing as they may read would be helpful. To sum up I should have just said, avoid those. Not to be self promoting, but if you look at my site there are a few quality examples to look at as well as some lower quality. Most somewhere in between.

 

http://www.freewebs.com/kamakiriken/index.htm

 

Hope this helps or at least when someone disagrees with me a discussion evolves that helps. Boy am I long winded today. I'll stop.

[DavidF]

Tsubas 1 and 3 look cast (and fake) to me.

If tsuba 2 is real, it is not very high quality. If it is shakudo, it is probably poor quality shakudo given the fact that the patination is not very dark.

 

I think you could do better.

 

 

DaveF.

[Rich T]

Hi Tim, I think 1 and 3 are Nagoyamono and not very different from the worst Shiremono. To help you understand all of that. Shiremono basically means 'Mass produced' and at or around the start of the Meiji period, when Japan opened it's doors to the rest of the world, tradesmen in area's like Yokohama mass produced tsuba and other items to sell to the tourists as they came and went. Some were good, some were not. Nagoyamono generally relates to mass reproduced fittings that mimic Goto, Ko Kinko and Mino style fittings. That's what one and 3 are I believe. So they are tsuba made in Japan prior to 1900, but they are not very good ones sorry.

 

Number 2 is as Dave says, although I would just rate this just above Shiremono, the mei is not badly cut but the Kebori ( carving ) is quite poorly done and armature'ish.

 

I have no idea what you are intending to pay for these but I would suggest buying a few books instead, having a look at what is available in both style and school.

 

Also have a look at the following sites for an idea of genuine tsuba.

 

http://www.nihonto.com/itemsaletsuba.html

 

http://www.nihonto.us/tsuba.htm

 

http://www.ricecracker.com/japanese_swords_tsuba/tsuba.htm

 

http://www.nihontocraft.com/Tsuba_for_sale.html

 

Next take a look at Jim Gilbert's website, read through and look at all the images.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/tsuba.htm

 

I would also like to point you to an article I posted on Tosogu.com recently.

 

http://tosogu.blogspot.com/2006/08/modern-collections-where-are-they_15.html#links

 

It might be worth a read at this stage of your collecting life. It is a hard time being new to collecting, you want to buy to learn but what to buy ?. Buying several cheap seems like fun and the way to go, but maybe buying one good tsuba would be better ?

 

just my 2 cents worth.

 

Cheers

 

Rich Turner

[bullpuppy]

Thanks for the all feed back. I will take a look at the info. I purchased a koto in gunto mounts and I am putting together the fittings to have a new tsuka and saya done. I spent the majority of money in my budget (the budget was based on one lucky day in Las Vegas) on the blade itself so my choices for fitting are either reproductions of originals or originals in not the best quality.

 

So if I have to go with low class original on number 2 what would a good price be?

[DavidF]

With so many good tsuba out there, it would be a waste of your hard won dollars to spend them on this kind of tsuba. :|

 

You really NEED to (a) buy some books--it's not as much fun, but you will make wiser choices in the long run; and (b) go to a nihonto show and have the change to hold/feel/get to know some real tsuba. Judging the quality of a tsuba is difficult to do on sight alone and requires some tactile learning in order to "feel" what a good tsuba is like. BTW, what you would pay for any one of these fakes may be $50, but for $150-$300 you could buy a decent, antique tsuba. A $150-$300 tsuba will not be the greatest work of art, but it will nonetheless be recognizable nihonto craftsmanship.

 

Being a student myself, I don't spend a lot on nihonto. But I did make the investment in books, and as a result my dollars are going towards wiser purchases. :D

 

DaveF.

[bullpuppy]

After doing a crash course in tsubas and reading all the excellant advice I think I found one that is real and may purchase.

 

http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/6050-6100/06097.html

[Mantis dude]

tim,

 

Much better! I know it is hard to wait, but with so much material out there, find what appeals to you. The nice thing about fittings is that the price tag is more reasonable to get something ok or decent. Not sure what you have for other fittings ie menuki and fuchi/kashira, but if you want them to match keep that in mind what you have to match some things are harder than others. Although the Japanese themselves don't neccesarily do that and there is nothing wrong with using different themes on your parts. One of the things that attracted me to the Mantis is that the legend behind it was interesting to me. I am at the extreme, of course. Remember that these pieces are also telling a story/depicting a legend. This was the way the samurai could express himself. Just another thing to consider when purchasing. We like to make things complicated (haha). Then again, it looks good is fine by me. For example, our boy Rich T is looking for those older iron pieces, he is looking for quality iron and well depicted pieces from certain schools (he of course can answer better of what he likes). We all have our tastes and ideas, however, most here will agree, don't buy junk. The tsuba on Aoi to me is light years ahead of your earlier posts. Then again who the heck am I (LOL). Good luck with it and post a picture when you are finished. All the best.

[Rich T]

Hi Tim, better, you know that has a nasty crack at the bottom don't you.

 

Just as an example, these are around the same price, and Koichiro san at Seikeido speaks excellent english.

 

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/tuba/t0087tenpo.htm

 

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/tuba/g0004hana.htm

 

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/tuba/t0122tuta.htm

 

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/tuba/t0120fune.htm

 

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/tuba/t0156goko.htm

 

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/tuba/g0053nanban.htm

 

I am unsure what your theme is and these cover many apsects.

 

I am biased towards several stores I will admit, but that is because they have such good reputations.

 

cheers

 

Rich

[bullpuppy]

I will check these out.