Real NBTHK Paper?

[WulinRuilong]

I saw a very strange NBTHK on ebay. It is a mumei Kikuchi Yari， but I see no maker/school/period be mentioned on the paper. 

I don't see any useful information on this paper, what do you guys think?

[MarcoUdin]

You can always ask the seller.

 

He is on this forum, his name is Matt.

You can scroll down to the dealer section and see him listed there.

 

[NewB]

Never seen fake NBTHK papers with Number, photo and stamp. Hopefully that never happens again as it once fid before. Looks legit to my amateur eyes.

 

Cheers

 

J.

[Bugyotsuji]

Well, one thing is for sure, that ‘WWII’ is wrong.

The NBTHK only says in typical minimalistic style: “Kikuchi Yari, Mumei”, so it’s surely not worth the bother to forge such paperwork. (Unless the length doesn’t add up or something?)

[WulinRuilong]

38 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

The NBTHK only says in typical minimalistic style: “Kikuchi Yari, Mumei”, so it’s surely not worth the bother to forge such paperwork. (Unless the length doesn’t add up or something?)

According to NBTHK shinsa criteria,

Edo and earlier blades with correct mei, or mumei blades on which the time period, kuni and school can be identified, may receive Hozon paper.

However, this paper doesn't identify anything!

[sabiji]

This is perfectly normal. It's not the first time I've seen a hozon for a kikuchi yari. It never says more than kikuchi yari and mumei. What more can you write about it? 

 

[sabiji]

Here is another example with Hozon at Aoi Art.

https://www.aoijapan.net/yari-mumeiunsigned-kikuchi-yari/

[Bugyotsuji]

Ah, now I understand your question!

The fact that they have called it a Kikuchi Yari means that the place and date are obvious to anyone who knows the history of these blades. In other words it’s the real Ma Koi.
Motto of the NBTHK: “Never write one word more than necessary.”

We all have to learn to read between the lines!!! 

[WulinRuilong]

1 hour ago, Bugyotsuji said:

The fact that they have called it a Kikuchi Yari means that the place and date are obvious to anyone who knows the history of these blades.

You don't really need a NBTHK paper to tell you it's a Kikuchi Yari, just like you don't need a NBTHK paper to tell you a sword is a katana or a wakizashi. 

This type of Yari has existed from the Kamakura period to the Edo period and can be found across Japan. What is the point of issuing such a paper? 
This paper literally has zero useful information.

 

Usually, the paper should look like this

[Brian]

Do the multitude of basic mumei yari we see, have school or smith attributions if they get papered?
I can see why they did this. It's not something needing an attribution. Just that it's real and not a modern fake.

[sabiji]

Well, and now? If I had a typical koto kikuchi, would I submit it for a hozon? Certainly not. For what?

If I had some 08/15 unsigned sankaku yari. Would I submit it? Same answer.

Same for me for unsigned katana or wakizashi or mediocre quality daggers. 
I have stopped counting how many hozon mumei shinshinto jumyo I have seen. The funniest thing, often the styles and qualities are completely different, so I find it hard to believe that these are all supposed to be from some Shinshinto period jumyo.

But that's the way it is. When I started the hobby over 30 years ago, a hozon was still something special. Tokubetsu Hozon was then already the Juyo of the "poor" man. If someone had told me at that time, what today gets all Hozon, I would have declared him crazy.

[DKR]

 The only positive aspect of a "Hozon"  paper with no information is : It is the opinion of the NBTHK that the objekt in the paper in genuine! 

 

So not a Chinese or another fake ! 

Sound funny , I know.....but I had a hard lesson learnd with a tsuba several years ago.

I thought it was a old good original one.......no bullshit . It was a modern copy ....made as looking old.

 

Just my two cent.....

[Baba Yaga]

Once again I state, "Papers mean nothing to ME", "the sword / Yari tells all"

[JakeNYC]

Need a much clearer picture of the certificate than that. Didn't know Japanese Army made gunto for kikuchi yari (lol)

[Baba Yaga]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:32 PM, Darkcon said:

Never seen fake NBTHK papers with Number, photo and stamp. Hopefully that never happens again as it once fid before. Looks legit to my amateur eyes.

 

Cheers

 

J.

 

A contradiction of errors, barrow someone else eyes. 

[Baba Yaga]

On 4/20/2022 at 2:02 AM, sabiji said:

 

But that's the way it is. When I started the hobby over 30 years ago, a hozon was still something special. Tokubetsu Hozon was then already the Juyo of the "poor" man. If someone had told me at that time, what today gets all Hozon, I would have declared him crazy.

 

I'll give a BIG 2nd on that. There was a time when they wouldn't look at it unless the sword had a very good old polish, or a very good new polish. And that means a high ranging Togi.