Copper Type 95 NCO questions

[elktonjohn]

Hello all, I am not sure how to broach my questions as I don't want to offer offense, make foolish assumptions or appear to behave in any way other than honorable. I own a legitimate Copper NCO, #2400 range with matching scabbard which has sort of a brass wash to it. The grip is not "bent" as appears to be an issue some times. The blade, being carbon steel has many spider marks, but no dings. There are irregularities to be felt when running your finger along the blade edge but nothing serious and the blade shape is good. There appears to be some minor areas of rust pitting that were cleaned up long before it came to me but it's so minor that I'm not bothered by it. It is missing it's tassle loop but all else is intact. I already own a GI-grab Aluminum handle in the 10,000 range, which I will never part with for personal reasons...but I would like to sell my Copper handle as it holds no sentimental value for me. However, I am not interested in putting it up on ebay and would like to sell it to someone who would appreciate it. I understand and apologize for the fact that I'm not putting this in the "for sale" section, but I honestly do not know what price to ask and while I fully understand that price depends on condition and is also very subjective based on a buyers preferences regarding patina and such...well...I am in need of some general guidelines to determine it's fair value. I have read many threads on the subject of these specific swords, and have learned a lot, but not enough

I collect and restore old Iron skillets and early 1900's desk fans and I know the ins and outs, and the "language" of fan fans and Iron restorers, while you all speak the language of Japanese edged weapons...which is a difficulty for me. Would any of you be so kind as to give me a rough idea of how much a Copper type 95 in "average" condition is generally worth so that I can find a sensible asking price?
I posted pictures, pre-covid, and got an offer of 1,800 but I thought it to be too low...but I am a novice and declined. Any thoughts or ideas welcome.

I developed a deep and life-long appreciation for the Japanese sword culture ever since I read "Musashi" by Eiji Yoshikawa in the early '90's and feel somewhat shamed by my asking for help to make a profit from a Japanese Katana, yet my trade is in buying and selling antiques. It pays the bills and I always do it honorably...but in this case I find that being in question. Any thoughts, opinions or dialog would be appreciated.

If anyone finds this dialog and my line of reasoning to be outside the spirit of this community board then I humbly apologize and will not return and will re-consider ebay as an option. I wish you all well, regards, John

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi John, 1800 is certainly far too low for an authentic copper handle. Type 95 collectors will give you a fair value here, it will definitely depend on condition.

[elktonjohn]

Thank you for your reply sir. I would be pleased to do a detailed photo-shoot, and ask for opinions, if that is acceptable to the people on this forum. I don't really mind tearing it all down but I don't want to damage it's integrity further so wonder if an assembled photo shoot would be acceptable.

[PNSSHOGUN]

No point taking it apart, in fact not advised to do that at all. Good photos will help with potential value.

[elktonjohn]

Thank you sir, I will present photos shortly. I hope tomorrow but can't promise that, Friday for certain. Again I apologize to all who may think this a self-serving endevour...it's not. I honestly wish that someone would, at some point, want to own this sword and be content with a fair price paid... as it should be. My thanks, John

[Shamsy]

It really does entirely depend on condition, John. As the roughest guide, you should be looking at $2,000USD for a poor condition but complete and original sword, up to $8,000USD for a really nice matched example. There are some variations to the earlier numbers that makes them a little more desirable to collectors, but 2,400 will be outside that range.

 

Based on what you're describing the condition to be, I'm going to guess you are at the middle to lower end of the scale. Green paint (any amount of) is far more desirable than the gilt you describe on the saya. Marks and pitting on the blade sound like a detractor too... but we need photos to judge the extent.

 

I'll add that there is a great example of one of these coopers on eBay right now. It's set to $5,000US ONO. It has been there for months,  I'm assuming becausethe serial numbers are mismatched. There was (and I assume still is) a far poorer example, which is priced higher, but matching. You can take this as an indication that the market currently considers $5,000USD too much for a really nice but mismatched copper and $6,000USD too much for a matching but poor condition sword.

[Brian]

Suggest posting it here, and getting the knowledgeable members to verify it's 100% correct.
That will help a lot to your value, buyers here will always be confident if something passed "inspection" by our NCO experts. Then you will have a better idea of value, and can list for sale in the right section, and maybe get some decent offers.

[Stegel]

I don't see any reason for keeping the actual serial number a secret... you have given us the range already, and it is something every 'prospective' buyer would like to know in advance i believe.

Is this the same sword you show in these old posts here  and here ?

 

[robinalexander]

 

Something is just not right here.

[elktonjohn]

   Shamsy, I see your points and can't argue one whit. Brian, I would be happy to post photos in order to get a better evaluation...but now it'll be Saturday more than likely, unless I can sneak some pics at work tomorrow. Stegel, I'm not sure why my instincts said to hide the serial number, but maybe it's akin to blurring your tags when selling a car on craigslist? I own an antique store and as you'd imagine I talk to other store owners and there was a flurry of scam artists a few years back who would take photos of a stores wares and somehow convince the police that they belonged to them...because they had the pictures to prove it. It was a mess and caused us all a lot of grief...so I've become cautious. Plus I'm an ex-cab driver in a large city and have seen more scams then I can count and that makes a person pretty cautious. But to set the record straight it's number is 2464, unless my old eyes deceive me (it's late here in Va.) and yes, those two posts were of my sword and were posted by me. Robinalexander, I don't think anything is "just not right here". Maybe it's been a long week and my sense of humor is offline but I think you mistake my honest candor for something which it is not.

   I will say that I have concerns about selling this sword internationally given the state of the world...I've been an ebay seller since 1998 under the nickname "Larsson" and anyone can find my history there, 1515 and 100%...and while I only sell now and then these days, I won't ship outside the U.S. as it's just too much hassle and uncertainty. Perhaps you guys use an escrow service to protect all party's interest, I don't know but it's a concern as I do not want an unhappy buyer...I'd rather keep it myself then to cause anyone any grief.

  I appreciate all of you and all of your comments and will provide pictures as soon as I can. Many thanks, John   "elktonjohn@comcast.net"

[Bruce Pennington]

John,

Thanks for the explanation about the scammers and your shop.  It's incredible the time and effort those guys put into their work.  Like the guys that fake swords, if they'd use the same skill and ingenuity to do honorable work, they'd still make a good living.  It's a shame.

[elktonjohn]

Bruce, I have spoken those exact (nearly exact) same words in discussions with my vendors and other store owners and remain baffled by this puzzling human behavior. I once caught a guy on tape stealing a few items but focusing on every single aspect of our security with a professionalism that would amaze you. Some of these guys are truly gifted I suppose.

I managed a photo shoot today and will be uploading what I have directly...but I fear that the file sizes will be too large. Is there a commonly used work-around for this?

[elktonjohn]

Ok, a question for all...I have about 23 photos to upload, they range in size from 4-6 MB each. I may be able to get one smaller one attached here but how does one do a huge upload on this board. Our fan collectors forum has no limits so this is new to me. Thanks, John

[elktonjohn]

With no idea of what I was doing...I uploaded all 28 pictures to Imgur (which I know almost nothing about) and they are there under my user name "elktonjohn". Any advice on how to proceed further would be appreciated. Desperate for a beer, I wish you all a very good night.

[vajo]

Post 2 - 4 smaller pictures thats enough for showing. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Full length photo of the entire thing; clear photo of tsuka with stamps; good shot of blade tip and sample of blade section.

[Brian]

No pic needs to be a few megs big. You can share everything that needs to be seen in a few hundred kb.
Search for free online image resizers...there are plenty.
Otherwise post the link to your imgur album.
Frankly, I don't think pics are needed. There are more than enough already posted of this sword. It's machine made. We aren't looking for nie and nioi or hataraki.
The sword was already verified. So there is zero more that is needed as far as pics go. Now it is about listing a price and seeing if anyone is interested.
I can tell you that at the last price, I have serious doubts it will sell. People aren't spending $5k+ on a machine made sword. Not when that buys you a very nice antique katana.
I think prices estimates were given by the experts here. You just need to decide what you are asking and list it.

[elktonjohn]

Ok, here's my first attempt at re-sizing...I did it at 600X400 but it distorts some pics, others seem ok...I'm a novice obviously...any tips on how to do a better job and I'm all ears. <edit> After posting the pics here I notice more distortion then is seen on my end...this is not easy to get right the first time.

Edited April 23, 2022 by elktonjohn
explanation

[Bruce Pennington]

That could easily go for US$2000-$2400 USD.   It’s intact, and a copper handle. Many guys would like to have one of these in their collection.

[elktonjohn]

Still getting re-sizing distortions...in last set you can see old Brasso on the blade guard, dark areas on blade are 95% discolorations but there are a few bits of shallow rust and some small areas which are pitted just enough to feel with your fingertips, but it's nothing terrible in my opinion. Blade is certainly not perfect but it's not dinged or damaged. Numbers match.

[elktonjohn]

Thanks Bruce, of course I'm a little deflated as I hoped for more but I know that I am out of my league here and value your opinion. I would ask something but don't know how to word this...in order to make sure that the buyer is happy and that I am not at risk from some sort of fraudulent buyer, how should the transaction take place. In a perfect world, a buyer shows up with cash, he/she checks the sword out and if all is well then great, done deal. But I don't want to mail this or take a check and I certainly don't want to send it outside of the U.S. at this time...the world is just too crazy right now. Thoughts?

[Brian]

Don't set both sizes. Just set the width to about 800 or 1000. And link the proportions.
Most picture resizers only need you to set one of those, so there is no distortion.
Check this post at the bottom: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/37608-posting-pics-and-their-placement/

 

[Kiipu]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:40 PM, elktonjohn said:

 But to set the record straight it's number is 2464, ....

 

Could the serial number be either 2664東 or 2684東?

[elktonjohn]

2664 is correct, and I'll re-size using those dimensions, thanks Brian...it asked for two values but I'll try with just one.

[Shamsy]

Sword looks alright. You could ask for $3,000 and I expect you'd get that. It is matching, after all. There are a couple of issues with the condition, but not major. You don't need to be so paranoid about selling it. Toss it up on eBay or put in the for sale section and use PayPal. Just use common sense and you'll be fine.

[elktonjohn]

Yeah, I'm a little paranoid about ebay these days...I've heard too many friends having issues with customs and I had to quit selling overseas during Covid due to ever-changing restrictions. It's not very seller friendly at all anymore. Selling here, using Paypal seems a good way to go. I'll ponder how best to ship it, think over the advice you all have provided and come up with a price. Many thanks for all the help as I felt like a jerk last time I posted it for sale...this time I think I'm a little more educated and more likely to set a price that's more reasonable. I just want a fair price and a happy buyer and the good karma that comes with it. Thank you all for your time and assistance, John