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cju777 Proficient

cju777

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I'm not a fittings expert nor novice really, but that price prompted me to look up Nobuie. Article by Marcus on him that might help explain why its desired at such cost:

 

https://markussesko.com/2013/06/14/on-sengoku-era-inscriptions-on-nobuie-tsuba/

 

Darcy (RIP) had one listed for sale some time ago as well:

https://yuhindo.com/nobuie/

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Steve Waszak Experienced

Steve Waszak

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I think Darcy's write-up explains very well the very high values genuine Nobuie tsuba enjoy.  It also must be remembered that photos do not do justice to the true appearance of Nobuie (and many other) tsuba.  In real life, true Shodai and Nidai works are stunning, featuring a depth of color and taking on a patina I have not seen matched by any other maker's work.  I have some personal experience with the tsuba in Darcy's write-up:  it is astonishingly beautiful in hand, but not so much in Darcy's photos.  Knowing firsthand the difference between how Nobuie swordguards come across in photos compared to what they actually look like when being held, I imagine the tsuba in the Aoi listing is vastly superior to how it may come across in the photos.  :) 

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Baba Yaga Mentor

Baba Yaga

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2 hours ago, suketaka said:

 

2.850.000 Y

 

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/d1047276661?conversionType=service_page_search

 

WOW WOW WOW $$$$$$$ I can't be this lucky. I thought it was some scam, or something. It's deep in a box with some bubble wrap along with others that are probably worth a barrel of cash.  

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Steve Waszak Experienced

Steve Waszak

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What's fascinating about that particular piece is that it's mumei(!), the paper gives it only to "Den Nobuie," and the price is still this high.  Of course, being published in the Nobuie Tsuba Shu is going to lift the value to a degree, but this seems like a lot to me.  Personally, the one Fred has here --  https://www.nihonto.com/1-1-22/ --  is the strongest of these three.  

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Baba Yaga Mentor

Baba Yaga

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40 minutes ago, Steve Waszak said:

What's fascinating about that particular piece is that it's mumei(!), the paper gives it only to "Den Nobuie," and the price is still this high.  Of course, being published in the Nobuie Tsuba Shu is going to lift the value to a degree, but this seems like a lot to me.  Personally, the one Fred has here --  https://www.nihonto.com/1-1-22/ --  is the strongest of these three.  

 

It's $18k 

 

The way I purchased this 18 years ago was really strange too. Me and the wife were driving down antique alley in Marin County. I pulled into this old army depot store and asked the owner if he had any  Japanese swords.  He said no, but he had some parts he thought went to a sword. He pulled out this old box and there was this old Tsube with fuchi kashira. I asked how much, he said $65 and I bought it. At the very minute an Asian couple came in all excited giggling and ask to buy said Tsuba.  The owner pointed at me and told them I just bought it. You should of seen the look on the Asians couples face. The Asian man walked right up to my face ( not the thing to do with me) say's, "that belongs to me".  Again ( not the thing to do with me). My wife gave me that look of don't do it. I told the Asian man my gain, your loss and walked out the door. If he would of been nice to me, I would of sold it to him for $100 and not thought twice. I never studied Tsuba, I like Edo soten tsuba like most. 

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rkg Mentor

rkg

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On 4/13/2022 at 9:12 AM, Baba Yaga said:

 

WOW WOW WOW $$$$$$$ I can't be this lucky. I thought it was some scam, or something. It's deep in a box with some bubble wrap along with others that are probably worth a barrel of cash.  

Not a scam, he's looking for a bunny...  There's actually a surprising number of mumei tsuba out there done in this style, quite possibly by somebody associated with or actually the orignal Nobuie boys (they're not signed so we will never really know, but they used the same iron, design language, had the same surface work/treatment, have the right age, etc etc) - and... they usually only go for a few hundred up to a couple of grand. (I've always been amused by the 20X or so the price goes up on these tsuba for that mei).

 

My favorite one of these is owned by Bob Haynes - just saw it again a couple of days ago - it catches your eye from across the room as "real" nobuie does, and...  its mumei (worse yet the mei was removed).  Bob's theory was that it signed by one of the other guys associated with the group and somebody pulled the mei to try and get a "den Nobuie" designation to try and sell it for more (which is better than the alternate theory that some idiot thought( or got told) it was mumei and had the mei pulled for that reason).

 

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

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Baba Yaga Mentor

Baba Yaga

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7 minutes ago, rkg said:

Not a scam, he's looking for a bunny...  There's actually a surprising number of mumei tsuba out there done in this style, quite possibly by somebody associated with or actually the orignal Nobuie boys (they're not signed so we will never really know, but they used the same iron, design language, had the same surface work/treatment, have the right age, etc etc) - and... they usually only go for a few hundred up to a couple of grand. (I've always been amused by the 20X or so the price goes up on these tsuba for that mei).

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

 

For a few hundred I would keep it, but for a few grand it would hit my wallet. Will see what the other Tsuba collectors I trust in hand will say. Bunny on Easter is pretty clever8)

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rkg Mentor

rkg

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1 hour ago, Baba Yaga said:

 

For a few hundred I would keep it, but for a few grand it would hit my wallet. Will see what the other Tsuba collectors I trust in hand will say. Bunny on Easter is pretty clever8)

Well, on your piece, its more like Christmas...  Darcy once likened this process (finding things in the woodwork and having them paper well) to winning the lottery.  I hope your number comes up :thumbsup:. 

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

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Curran Grand Master

Curran

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On 4/13/2022 at 9:43 AM, suketaka said:

 

2.850.000 Y

 

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/d1047276661?conversionType=service_page_search

 

On 4/13/2022 at 12:21 PM, Steve Waszak said:

What's fascinating about that particular piece is that it's mumei(!), the paper gives it only to "Den Nobuie," and the price is still this high.  Of course, being published in the Nobuie Tsuba Shu is going to lift the value to a degree, but this seems like a lot to me.  Personally, the one Fred has here --  https://www.nihonto.com/1-1-22/ --  is the strongest of these three.  

 

 

This one is a trap.

It is 'Den Nobuiye' for reasons of saving face.  Being mumei BUT in the classic book as Nobuiye, you cannot call the famous scholar out as wrong- but it is not regarded as a Nobuiye these days.

It sold off a dealer's website at 1,000,000 yen and somebody realized their mistake then sold it for 750,000 or so yen.

Whomever bought it is now looking for a new sucker.

 

The whole Den thing is a pain.

The current NBTHK is doing it much much more than in past decades. 

   * 1/3rd of the time it means the tsuba is [better] than what we are calling it, but we aren't confident enough to stick our necks out.  (if TH, this is probably what you are dealing with....with exceptions if a very big name)

  ** 2/3rds of the time it means something else. Sometimes simply uncertainty between two schools, or just one very cranky dissenting judge that day.

I had a tsuba that one famous scholar said was nidai Hayashi Shigemitsu (hakogaki) and another famous scholar said was nidai Kanshiro (published). When it came up for sale, the current NBTHK had just papered it 'Den Kanshiro' to split the difference.

 

--The Den Nobuiye is the rare example of the worst kind, being a political smudge to save face. Sort of a hot potato. The name is so big that they almost have to give it TH.

Now someone is looking to at least their triple their money off of the debatable 'den' usage.

 

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