Mystery sword, WW2, fancy saya appointments

[Robbin]

Hi all! New here, and want to share some photos of a sword in hopes that some of you may have some insight into it's history.  It has some fancier appointments on the saya, as far as ones I have seen photos of in the past.  I was going to attempt to disassemble it for more photos but the single mekugi is strangely blocked by the ito...   don't want to damage anything.  Thanks in advance, and I hope this is also informative to the forum, adding something to the treasure trove of knowledge here. I see I can only post 3 MB or so, but hopefully I can add photos in later comments?

AD554A72-B372-4688-8C1A-7B7D53E8C9E3.heic B0A28C12-DBB5-4F98-9C4B-062BA454DC73.heic

[Robbin]

In addition, this is NOT intended for sale etc., I am not looking for info to list, only curious etc.  (Just read this suggestion in the FAQ section whilst trying to learn hot to post pics properly..)

  Bear with me folks, and apologies 

[Bruce Pennington]

Photos added.  I don't see anything that points to WWII.  Purely a civil sword and fittings, although seeing the nakago could show a blade made during the war... or not.

 

You don't show the covered mekugi.  Often it's possible to gently push the ito aside to tap the mekugi out and reveal the nakago.

 

PS: the new iPhone format of .heic doesn't post well on the forums.  Take a screenshot of the photo and post that.

 

 

[Robbin]

[Robbin]

[Robbin]

I did try to budge the ito but in that area it is quite tight..  I am hesitant.  Although given the current state of the whole tsuka perhaps it would be worth the risk, if photographing the nakago would yield something interesting?

Thanks again, fun to try and unravel mystery!

[DoTanuki yokai]

This is not a WW2 sword, it is in Tachi Koshirae and the blade looks well made to me.

When you take of the Tsuka i think we will see it is much older, maybe Suriage(shortned, most times happend around 1600). 

Tachi are the ancestors of Katana but also Katana was mounted in Koshirae like this. 

You should try to get the Mekugi out, but be carfully there is only one direction it will come out.

Im sure this is a Traditional made Nihonto (Japanese sword).

 

On your Iphone you can change the heic format to simple jpeg when you change in the options "High Efficiency" Off but this will only affect pictures you take after this. 

 

EDIT: Ok i checked this and for the actual update you go to setting->Camera->Format-> and change from "High Efficiency" to "Most Compatible"

 

(Heic is the raw format of the iphone camera and keep all informations while jpeg saves some space but lose information of the photo taken. Sometimes you can get problems with the transfer of big videos when you switch "HIgh Efficiency" to "Most Compatible") 

 

[Bazza]

Christian S/DoTanuki yokai said:

> You should try to get the menuki out, but be carfully there is only one direction it will come ou

 

That's mekugi...  mekugi..  the peg in the handle.

 

BaZZa.

(I'm really not trying to be pedantic!!)

[DoTanuki yokai]

No, you are not pedantic, i made a mistake. 

Thanks i have corrected this in my post.

[Robbin]

OK, I will attempt to disassemble.  Will report back with photos of nakago and fittings..  Thanks again all, I truly appreciate the expertise.

[ChrisW]

Best of luck! Looking forward to seeing what you find.

[Robbin]

Ok, so the portion of the ito that was blocking the exit side of the mekugi was apparently previously cut and reglued together? Perhaps the person who did it realized that it was already in such disrepair that it was worth it to reveal the nakago?  Not sure, but it basically fell apart cleanly as soon as I put any sideways pressure on it.  Here she is, all revealed!  I also need to research what steps to take before reassembly...  Do I clean the nakago?  Etc..

[DoTanuki yokai]

Do not clean the Nakago. 

Im not good with this but i think the Date is "bunkyu (1861-1863) year of the dog 8 month".

Give me some more time but i just want to say dont clean the nakago.

EDIT: 

The signature seem to be "Omi no Kuni TaneYoshi"

For example https://www.Japanese-sword-katana.jp/katana/1910-1086.htm

I cant tell you if the signature is genuine, but for me it looks good.

 

Some more useful Information https://yuhindo.com/taneyoshi/

 

From Markus Sesko Page https://markussesko.com/

 

 It is a katana by swordsmith Horii Taneyoshi (堀井胤吉, 1821-1903) which is signed and dated: “Ōmi no Kuni Taneyoshi – Bunkyū ni inudoshi gogatsu” (近江國胤吉・文久二戌年五月) – “Taneyoshi from Ōmi province, in the fifth month of Bunkyū two (1862), year of the dog.” 

[Robbin]

This is so wonderful, I've been digging through the internet reading about Taneyoshi and comparing the kanji, and it looks like him.  That would make this one worthy of restoration someday right?  It's got some minor chips and is not sharp except for a 15 cm stretch close to the base of the blade.  There is only one menuki, and as can be seen in the pics the ito is broken and unraveling and the fittings are a tad loose when assembled. Guess I'll just have to take out a second mortgage then. . I can't imagine what it would cost to do properly.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Lanegan,

You've got some good options in the USA for a polish - others will chip in with ideas for a hilt wrap etc.

 

Bob Benson (can't link his site for some reason)

Ted Tenold (Legacy Art Swords) http://www.legacyswords.com/

Moses Becerra (prices are listed and this is about the going rate) https://nihontoantiques.com/sword-restoration/

 

These are quality craftsmen with waiting lists so you'll have time to put some cash aside before the work is done.

 

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

[SteveM]

Very nice sword, and hopefully it will polish up well. I think any sword collector who appreciates swords from this era would be happy to have a Taneyoshi in his/her collection. Don't worry about the sharpness. The polisher will take care of that. And you could do some real damage to the sword just by trying to make it sharp again. Better to have a dull sword that can be saved, than to have a sharp sword that no collector wants to touch because the amateur sharpening job has screwed it up permanently. By all means get in touch with one of the gents listed above. They can help you out. Be patient. 

 

The handle (tsuka) can be fixed also. Don't sweat the wrapping of the tsuka for now. I would wait until you have spoken with the polishers. (They can probably advise you regarding re-wrapping of the tsuka as well). The scabbard is lovely, and has a nice family crest on it. Three bars in a circle (or, in Japanese maru ni mitsu-hiki). Many families used this crest, so there is no telling who actually owned the sword (unless you have an idea of the provenance of the sword). 

https://sengoku-g.net/crests/view/42

 

Anyway, the scabbard is nice, the tsuka is repairable (the old wrapping will get discarded, and new silk wrapping applied) and at that time if you want new menuki, you can buy them and send them to the person who does the tsuka wrapping, and he'll incorporate it into the finished tsuka. 

 

The whole package is in good, salvageable condition. Don't clean anything. Check out the link below for other tips and hints.

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/faq/