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Japanese type 32 (early production)


KB1107

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Hello all,

 

i wasn't planning on buying anymore type 32’s because I already have 5... however, when one becomes available with a low serial? I’m in! This particular one has seen some use. There’s a fair amount of wear to the blade and handle, but overall a decent looking sword. The scabbard had a lot of white staining on it... almost like somebody tried to clean it with acid. It took a few days to remove it. Th scabbard isn’t original... a replacement that was forced matched. The sword is the “Otsu” version... would somebody know what year this particular sword was manufactured?

 

One digit less on the serial number and I would’ve passed on the purchase! Grin

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Ha!  I get it with the serial number!  I was getting clearance to fly out of a Florida airport and the Clearance Delivery guy gave us our "squawk" - 0666 (it's a radar identification system that shows the position on ATC radar screens).  WEll, we asked for another, and he chuckled and and said "Yeah, I get that a lot.  Here's a different one ...."

 

Fuller says the Type 32 was introduced in  August 1899.  Going by memory, I want to say they were making about 9,000 per year?  Could be wrong on that number, but I'd still say your blade was made in the last half of 1899.

 

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Thanks Bruce... I was wondering if the first year of manufacture was in the 1800’s. Also, I think I’ve read that only 80,000 units of the “KO” version were manufactured (That seems like a low number)... do you know how many “Otsu”  were manufactured?

 

For real! That number is nothing to play with! Grin... I would’ve waited for the next plane!

 

Thanks again,

David

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Hi David,

You beat me to it!, i saw this last week and went to check on finances, but when i went to go back to it, you must have snagged it! Good price and Well done.

Thanks for sharing photos here too as from memory the scabbard wasn't shown.

Here's an old write up on these that you may find interesting, it's from Francis Allen, with input from eddoko (Takehito Jimbo), both from Gunboards Forum.

I'm not sure if this has been updated by them or other type 32 collectors, as it mentions the 'KO' appearing to be made right up to the end of the war 1945.

We know this wasn't correct from research into the Japanese Archives by Nick Komiya (who is a lifetime member over at Warrelics Forum now).

Overall, a lot of these were made over some 36 years from 1899, some 80000 of each?,  but both models were replaced by the Type 95 in 1937 when production began.  I would think yours would be an 1899 example at a guess.

 

 

 

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The very fact that a KO scabbard is matched to a otsu numerically imho is concering.

 

the sword isnt dated so imho forget placing any value in the number. 

 

keep searching for a matched and dated sword in far better example, there are examples numbered under 10,000 out there.

 

the over riding serial numbers cause confusion. so look for dated example, if your lucky you can find examples dated to the month

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Hi Stegel,

 

Thanks for the link... I do remember reading that a few years ago, I forgot all about it.

 

I offered the seller $100.00 less than asking and he took it, go figure! I really did’nt need it... but for that price? I thought it was a good deal. I don’t resell items that I purchase, I display all of them  in a separate room... someday it will be handed down to a family member or resold (But not by me! Grin). I  look at these pieces as being a commodity... I feel my money is better invested in these war relics than the stock market, especially in these trying days.

 

Once again, thanks for the comment and info!

 

Lonely Planet...

 

Thanks for the comment as well... I’m not concerned about the mismatch. I believe they’re both original, maybe not to each other, but still original. It may not be the finest looking piece... after all, its been through a few conflicts. I would say it has character and looks the part.

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Hamish and Bruce are correct here. Both the sword and saya numbers were removed and replaced on 32s, so don't place too much faith in an early number not being a replacement number from a factory refurbishment. I have an early number otsu which fits this category.

 

Like Bruce, I also have an example with multiple struck numbers on the saya. I think that's a great bit of history for the sword, but the practice of replacing and re-matching saya seems to be common.

 

The dated example Hamish is suggesting you look for refers to the stamps on the guard which can correlate to a date range. I'd go off those as a more accurate means of dating. The numbers are unreliable, though it looks like the stud for the leather loop is intact, so that at least is a good indicator of it being an earlier sword. These were discarded later and plugged.

 

I've added a couple of pictures of two of my 32s. The first picture is my 32 with low numbers, which I believe are most likely arsenal re-stamps. The saya for that one matches, too. The second is my 32 with three serial numbers on the saya (the final is on the other side and matches the blade).

 

 

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Thanks Shamsy,

 

So, if the numbers were ground off and new numbers stamped... wouldn’t the thickness of the blade at the ricasso be less? I would assume that there would be a way to distinguish between original and re-applied numbers. Also, I wonder why they wouldn’t put a character next to the number to distinguish this change, similar to what Bruce mentioned with his scabbard/saya.

 

interesting... thanks again for the info

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The blade thickness may be reduced, yes. If you had digital callipers you could have a crack at measuring, but I find there is some different in swords anyway, presumably due to production. It'd be a long shot, but give it a go.

 

As to distinguishing between original or reapplied numbers... I've yet to pick any great way to do so. The fonts and size absolutely change, but there is no true pattern I can see. It also doesn't help that refurbishment and restamping muddies any patterns that may exist.

 

As you can see in my picture of the saya, they don't seem to have added any stamp (and I've not seen an example with any sort of stamp to show this, not that 32s are my field of expertise). Occasionally there is a leading zero in serial numbers, the significance of which eludes me. I don't think extra stamps are something I would expect. I imagine when a complete sword was avaliable, it was a case of send it out if there are no issues that need addressing. We've seen 95s that have been refurbished (one great example is a copper which contained a paper note in the tsuka stating as much) and yet there are no extra stamps or the like added to show this refurbishment took place. An assumption, but I'd say 32s follow suit.

 

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Shamsy,

 

Thanks again for the info!

 

It sounds like there’s no absolute way to be sure of the serial number originality no matter how you cut it. It’s a crap shoot! Thank you again for the info... I will think twice about purchasing a type 32 sword with a lower serial number in the future. Hopefully, one day these swords with increase in value as the type 95’s have done. Some of the the type 95’s are costing more than the traditionally made blades! Crazy....

 

 

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