Mumei Nihonto - Aoe or Horikawa school?

[noneed2hate]

Recent Nihonto acquisition - sword is mumei and unpapered. I believe (and fully understand I am likely totally wrong) it to be either Aoe School or Horikawa school based on some of the characteristics (referencing Nagayamas Connoisseurs book) seen in my baseline analysis as follows:

The blade does to appear to be at face value suriage with a chopped nakago-jiri and the presence of more than 1 meguki-ana. Nakago has the presence of O-sujikai yasurime on one side, and the same on the other but running the opposite direction (i.e deep slant from mune down towards ha instead the expected deep slant running from ha down towards the mune.). Yasurime is a bit hard to make out in the photos through the patina, but it is present.

 
Jihada seems to be a ko-masame or perhaps very dense ko-mokume. I'm leaning towards the former as there is the occasional coarse masame grain present (if this is appropriate to call the clear lamination lines).

Chu-suguha hamon with ko-nie deki along the habuchi as well as what I believe to be presence uchinoke, ko-saka ashi

Chu-kissaki with a Boshi that seems to be ko-maru, the turn back is very faint/thin on one side almost appearing to be ichimonji, but clearly present on the other as ko-maru

Other Basic dimensions/sugata characteristics: 
mihaba 31.1mm, saki haba 25.4mm
motokasane 6.6mm, sakikasane 5.2mm
nagasa 67.3mm

Low-shinogi, blade appears to be very slender, very acute diamond shape. Blade also has a very gentle iori-mune. Sori appears to be Saki-sori, though I'm not certain what the considerations/rules are for determining this if it is in fact a suriage blade since this would likely change. Kata-chiri bohi is also present which I feel is adding to the slenderness of the blade as a definite shinogi line is not present up until around where the yokote is. 

Koshirae is a mish-mash by the previous owner to make the blade useable for Iai, saya is a loose fit and likely not original or meant for this blade, but the rest of it I feel seems passable. Fuchi is signed shige-something 重 _? I was unable to determine the second character.

Based on my initial observations, I believe the blade to have generally originated either from the Aoe school or the Horikawa school. To be perfectly honest, I made just a few correlations and fixated on those two schools going forward so I likely may have missed other schools that may have similarities. That said, I believe if it is a Koto blade, then Aoe may be the clear choice. However if it is a Shinto blade that did not go through the suriage process, Horikawa may be correct as they are described as trying to replicating koto blades and utilized kiri/ichimonji nagakojiri. I'm leaning more towards the former than the latter, but will be comparing to examples of those schools going forward as opposed to the checklist approach via book I just utilized. Does anyone have any different takeaways for this sword or any corrections to any of my observations above based on the photos?

There's quite a few photos but I'll try to keep it to as few for reference as possible, the remainder will be in the following album if need be: https://imgur.com/a/VdC6pR5, please let me know if any further/clearer pictures will be required.

I look forward to the discussion 

 

 

 

 

[Shugyosha]

Hi George, thanks for posting a very interesting blade. I’m not saying that your Kantei is wrong, but this blade lacks the defining characteristics of both schools in terms of hada: chirimen hada for Aoe and something called zanguri hada for the horikawa school (a rough, standing-standing out hada not usually masame. Can’t find an example in line of this at the moment but there should be pictures of chirimen hada on NMB. 
 

That doesn’t mean you’re wrong as there are exceptions to every rule. I think it’s a suriage blade and older than Horikawa Kunihiro’s work period. If my eyes don’t deceive, I see ko itame hada, masame hada and chikei and it looks like there is some bo utsuri there too. I could be wrong but koto, ko itame and utsuri suggests a quality blade. Do you have any close-ups of the boshi? 
 

I suspect there will be a lot of interesting discussion around this and thanks again for posting. 

[Shugyosha]

See Paulb’s post on the 2nd page for an example of chirimen hada. 
 

 

[noneed2hate]

Hi John, I had neglected to add the boshi photos, but just added them to the main post, my apologies. I'll track down references for those characteristics you mentioned and read through that linked thread, I am quite curious, thank you for the insight!

[Shugyosha]

An example of zanguri hada here according to Aoi: http://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2014/14853-2.jpg

 

[noneed2hate]

Regarding the Chikei, I may have overlooked that but I was definitely curious about these faint black lines approximately 1/3 of the way between where the shinogi would be and the habuchi as pictured below:

These were the photos where that is best defined.

 

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

Nice piece!!

[Shugyosha]

Maybe just scuff marks from a bad fit to the saya. Don’t think it’s an effect from forging. 

[Gakusee]

I do not see chikei in this later blade. Chikei are thicker and black in colour. These structures in the photos above could indeed be scratches or also surface nie accumulation but not in the sense of chikei.

[Nihontocollector752]

Not sure it is viable to kantei this in this polish but looks more Yamato or sub mainline Yamato rather than Aoe or Horikawa, even the sugata is a bit off for Aoe or Horikawa. But, as said, there are exceptions to every rule.

[David Flynn]

I have a feeling that, this could be a Shinshinto copy.   I have come to this opinion because, 1.  the Hada.  2.  the Sugata.  and 3.  the placement of the Mekugi ana ( which also appear to be drilled).

[NewB]

⬆️   +1

 

And to add - the rust on the nakago

 

 

J.

[Nihontocollector752]

Those are very fair points, i neglected to look at the ana, and now also see some red rust there which is a sign of a younger sword.

 

Do you think artificial ageing on the nakago?

 

 

[NewB]

Not sure if you're addressing me but my take is - it doesn't look artificially aged however the photos are deceiving as the light comes on in an awkward angle. Also, I'm not an expert but I have never seen such hada that is so perfectly uniform above and below the Shinogi line. Last, I can't identify any yasurime either or it appears as barely any scratches were applied rather than file marks. Also, the material of the habaki.. I'd take it to an expert just to sleep well.

 

 

 

Otherwise it looks like an ultra healthy and stout, hefty blade in incredible condition if authenticated of being very old from just about any of the great schools. 

 

Regards,

 

J.

[Nihontocollector752]

The 0.66 on the kasane though is a bit thin for a shinshinto, even if it were polished through, at 0.66 i'd expect a shinshinto to show ware of some sort. The mihaba to saki haba ratio also seems off for a shinshinto. Hmmm nice conundrum. 

[Shugyosha]

I guess I'm the one waving the flag for an older blade.

 

So here goes with some arguments in that direction: the ana being drilled could be as a result of them not being the original ana. In the pictures where George is holding the blade I think the patina is fine; where in the others it's the light seems to create a red look to it that might suggest red rust. My feeling is that this is an o suriage blade that started life as a katana as the hi goes all the way through the tang. I think if a shin shinto smith was trying to create an utsushi mono he would have gone for a deeper sori. Looking at the sugata it looks like the sori is beginning to deepen nearer the tang (though that impression might be created by the thinner nakago) but is perhaps not that far off for the end portion of a long blade and there were of course some older blades that lacked sori.

 

Am I the only one seeing utsuri? That ought to point away from a shin shinto blade (though perhaps not definitively) and I'm with Jimmy that the kasane seems too narrow for a newer blade.

 

What might let this argument down is that the hada is flawless and one would normally expect to find a few kitae ware in a koto blade. All good stuff though and kudos to George for starting the thread.

[Gakusee]

John, the hada seems a newer / Shinto type hada to me and also the boshi straightish and shinogiji hada......Good patination on the nakago but that can be achieved. I had a blade with repatinated nakago and it had been done extremely well - one could not tell it was not Shinto patina but patina done 20 years ago.

 

[noneed2hate]

I really appreciate all the replies everyone, this a great learning experience and discussion for me.

Here are a few more photos in more natural lighting that hopefully work out a bit better than the harsher artificial lighting I was using in earlier photos. Regarding the Utsuri, I do wonder if that might have perhaps been a slight reflection of my phone 

Regarding the Yasurime, would it be reasonable to assume the Yasurime may be heavily obscured or worn down through age/patination? I can see very uniform marks indicative of O-sujikai, but they are not deep or super defined. 

Additionally below you'll find close ups of the meguki-ana themselves for further evaluation. At face value it does appear the mekugi-ana may have been struck, perhaps by a previous owner attempting to drive the mekugi out or during the creation of the Tsuka as it is of recent production (at least the Tsuka core is). Thanks again everyone!

[ROKUJURO]

Hi George,

after a careful look at your SUGATA photo, I feel that your blade is KOSHI-ZORI. My impression is that It is a nice blade, but with only photos as reference, an assessment is not easy. Looking at the very even NAKAGO patination and your close-up photos of the MEKUGI-ANA (not meguki-ana), I would not exclude the possibility of a well-made SHIN SHINTO UTSUSHI. 

[noneed2hate]

Hi Jean,

I appreciate you looking this over. It does appear you are correct. I measured things out this time around instead of eyeballing and it does appear the blade is slightly Koshi-zori as you mentioned. 

Regarding the patination, I assume if it were an older Suriage/O-suriage blade, we would see more variation or I guess stages in the patination that would reflect the nakago pre/post suriage process as opposed to a consistent patina throughout?

I am quite embarrassed about my misspelling of Mekugi, my apologies. I'll try to proofread a bit better going forward, thank you for pointing that out. 

I have included a picture with a crude but decent illustration of where I measured out the widest section of the sori to be. 

Currently reading up on Utsushimono, this is fascinating stuff.

 

As always, thank you! 
 

[Gakusee]

George, this might be ever so slightly koshizori but traditionally this blade would be classified as torii zori.  When people speak of koshizori, the sori is deeper and much more pronounced than in your case and usually with straightening in the monouchi area.

Something like this: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21404/lot/1125/

 

[David Flynn]

Michael, the Koshizori you mention is for Kamakura period Koshizori.   As time went on, the Koshizori became more and more shallow.   To check if it's Tori or Koshi,  run a string (or whatever) line from the Nakago Jiri to the tip of the  Kissaki.   This will tell you where the deepest point is.  It will also show up Koshizori.                         Also, this was truly O Suriage, then the Koshi, would be gone.

[noneed2hate]

Perhaps I'm slightly confused on how the Sori is determined. Determining Sori with a straight line from Kissaki to Munemachi is incorrect? 

remeasuring from Kissaki to the nakago-jiri, it does seem to essentially be tori-sori with a slight lean towards koshizori. 

Seems either method produces similar results at least in regards to this particular blade. 

[Gakusee]

2 hours ago, David Flynn said:

Michael, the Koshizori you mention is for Kamakura period Koshizori.   As time went on, the Koshizori became more and more shallow.   To check if it's Tori or Koshi,  run a string (or whatever) line from the Nakago Jiri to the tip of the  Kissaki.   This will tell you where the deepest point is.  It will also show up Koshizori.                         Also, this was truly O Suriage, then the Koshi, would be gone.

Thanks, David, well aware of this. Notwithstanding, the blade above would not be determined and described to have koshizori.

 

And, George,you a right that you measure from hamachi to kissaki. Of course suriage affects it but with or without the suriage this blade is not a koshizori blade. 

[WillFalstaff]

noneed2hate - I literally just got done reading a chapter in Nakahara’s book. Instead of me bumbling out letters and incoherent sentences, here’s some picks. (Taken from “Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords: A Collector’s Guide”, by Nobuo Nakahara, trans. by Paul Martin, pg. 99-107)

 

 

 

 

[WillFalstaff]

(Pics continue)

 

[WillFalstaff]

And one more

[WillFalstaff]

This pic is important