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Is this Heisei blade able to be cut with?


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I remember your other thread got a lot of negativity. I will try to avoid that here.

 

In my opinion it would be a good sword for cutting. What must be noted that these very wide hira-zukuri blades excel at cutting tatami mats. Some might say they could be called as "cheating" as they perform very well. I am not a martial artist but I do think people might have bit too strong restrictions about sizes. All around the world various historical cultures used blades of varying sizes. In my opinion something like 10 cm difference in length does not mean too radical change. Of course mostly I feel the size differences come into play when drawing the sword from saya and also when performing combination cuts / kata or other movement drills with high speed and variation. I've done some amateur cutting with Japanese style replicas from c. 20 to 100 cm and as you understand the differences in size it isn't in my opinion too much different, with very long blades body physics alter some cutting angles etc. and you can be more creative with shorter blades.

 

Of course if you practice some specific tradition it is of course advisable to discuss with your teacher and his/hers teacher etc. as they can help deciding on a fitting sword.

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5 hours ago, Nihontocollector752 said:

@Barrett Hiebert The direct answer is yes. If you have the height for this blade, as it is 80cm on the nagasa it was made for someone over 6ft 2 inches in height, but judging from a previous thread i think you mentioned your height is well under 6ft? 


This is correct. Unless you are practicing an art that calls for a longer katana (e.g. Shin Shin Ryu) or a shorter katana (e.g. Ryushin Shouchi Ryu) the kissaki should just barely hover above the ground when the sword is held at your side in a relaxed grip. 
 

As someone else mentioned these details are usually prescribed by the style of swordsmanship you are studying. 
 

Where do you live Barrett? Perhaps we can put you in touch with a qualified dojo. 

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5 hours ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

 

…it is of course advisable to discuss with your teacher and his/hers teacher etc. as they can help deciding on a fitting sword.

 


THIS… training in a martial art (especially one with large sharp blades) without being under the watchful eye of a qualified and dedicated instructor can be dangerous… to you, those around you, and the blade.  
 

EDIT:  I just found the other thread.  My comments won’t help… it’s not what you want to hear.  I’ll stop.

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Forumites,

 

This sword was going up for sale so I had to jump on it. Even though I love the look of the Gassan Sadakazu saber, I was merely going to get a copy made of this sword for cutting as to appease and respect the community.

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-osaka-gassan-sadakazu-seitan/

 

Confirmed a trade with Atsuo Imazu of Giheiya Japanese Swords for my Juyo Nakajimarai Rai katana with a custom koshirae being built and 950,000 yen. Had to compromise, I know he’s making some profit, though I’ll be happy. I always have loved the Nanbokucho period and they did have larger swords then for ground combat. I don’t think that this sword will be too much of a stretch. The extra money will allow me to purchase a custom armour…for historical reenactment and training.

 

https://samuraistore.com/collections/life-size-armor/products/uroko-yoroi

 

And I understand your guys concerns about safety, appropriate blade length to body height, arm length, style (Ryu) practiced, etc. though I can already cut safely with European swords longer than this.

 

Plus I have a longer right arm due to a previous injury so it wouldn’t really matter. I have to make changes how I wield any sword. I just was wanting the Gassan saber because it was light enough to be wielded in one hand as well as two, though I can most surely handle this Miike Ju Kunitada katana.

 

I’m not a beginner guys when it comes to martial arts. My geographical orientation disallowed me from engaging in a traditional JSA Ryu. There is Noble House Kenjutsu though they have been proven to be illegitimate since they can not prove their lineage. There is Iaido though I’m unable to attend due to not getting any vaccines. (Not even going to get into that topic, this isn’t the place.)

 

Best regards,

 

Barrett Hiebert

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2 hours ago, Barrett Hiebert said:

Forumites,

 

This sword was going up for sale so I had to jump on it. Even though I love the look of the Gassan Sadakazu saber, I was merely going to get a copy made of this sword for cutting as to appease and respect the community.

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-osaka-gassan-sadakazu-seitan/

 

Confirmed a trade with Atsuo Imazu of Giheiya Japanese Swords for my Juyo Nakajimarai Rai katana with a custom koshirae being built and 950,000 yen. Had to compromise, I know he’s making some profit, though I’ll be happy. I always have loved the Nanbokucho period and they did have larger swords then for ground combat. I don’t think that this sword will be too much of a stretch. The extra money will allow me to purchase a custom armour…for historical reenactment and training.

 

https://samuraistore.com/collections/life-size-armor/products/uroko-yoroi

 

And I understand your guys concerns about safety, appropriate blade length to body height, arm length, style (Ryu) practiced, etc. though I can already cut safely with European swords longer than this.

 

Plus I have a longer right arm due to a previous injury so it wouldn’t really matter. I have to make changes how I wield any sword. I just was wanting the Gassan saber because it was light enough to be wielded in one hand as well as two, though I can most surely handle this Miike Ju Kunitada katana.

 

I’m not a beginner guys when it comes to martial arts. My geographical orientation disallowed me from engaging in a traditional JSA Ryu. There is Noble House Kenjutsu though they have been proven to be illegitimate since they can not prove their lineage. There is Iaido though I’m unable to attend due to not getting any vaccines. (Not even going to get into that topic, this isn’t the place.)

 

Best regards,

 

Barrett Hiebert

 

You are a beginner in "JSA " martial arts which involves tameishigiri. Sorry to say. You are a beginner in Japanese swordsmanship. European sword arts is not the same. 

 I cannot understand why you would want to cutt with a nihonto. In nearly ten years of budo I've never ever come across even the most novice anime type enthusiast who dreamt cutting with an antique blade over thousand dollars.

 

We live in a world where we are soo lucky to have quality cutting tools like modern production blades. Even sensei james Williams who does alot of tameishigiri uses a modern blade such as a bugei or hanwei . I've never seen him cutt with expensive nihonto. Sensei tamesubro also cuts with a tori xl from hanwei. 

These swords are made for dojo cutting. 

 

Yes nihontos are used in dojos in Japan under the guidance of very experienced teachers. 

 

Let me break it to you as a martial artist. Cutting with a nihonto in your backyard will give you no satisfaction what so ever. 

It will not give you any feel or idea of being "samurai". You will not appreciate any of it. 

But you have money to burn go ahead. 

 

I find you very disrespectful to our art and the art of preservation. 

 

Sorry for the rant. 

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As Paz mentioned James Williams:

 

 

The katana is not exceptional among swords as a battlefield weapon or dueling weapon. It excels at the draw cut, which is what Iaido is built around and is demonstrated in the above video.

 

Cutting things with an already unsheathed sword is not generally dangerous to the one with the sword, but you can easily split your saya and permeantly disable your hand on a poorly executed draw cut.

 

If you want to practice draw cutting, you should learn Iaido. If you don't intend to do so, why not just use a machete or an axe?

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I think it's pointless trying to convince someone like @Barrett Hiebert that he should or should not do something. We should wish him well and since his glass is full we should probably let him learn in his own way. At the end i also feel he enjoys provoking the collecting and martial arts community to get satisfaction from disarray, this is also known as narcissistic tendency. These people exist everywhere and we cannot change them. 

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Forumites,

 

I’m not even going to bother anymore wasting my time trying to explain myself to anyone here. You all have your perceptions and biases, thinking yourselves superior, stemming from your seniority within your JSA background. That is fine. You can feel that way all day.

 

You are offended by what I have to say. That onus is on you. Not me.
 

 It has no bearing on what I will do. I am not beholden to your perceptions, expectations. It doesn’t define, limit or control me.

 

Though I do take offence, especially when someone like Jimmy insinuates I’m narcissistic and deliberately take pleasure in contention, provocation of this community.

 

Now that’s drawing a line.

 

None of you know the caliber of my character. You make your opinion based on your minuscule window of inference from what I have chosen to divulge to you.

 

Again that is your perception and expectation which stems from exclusivity within your JSA realm.

 

I’ve learnt my lessons here and I’m very thankful for the illumination that you’ve all provided me.

 

I wish you all well. This is the best I can do right now.

 

Best regards,

 

Barrett Hiebert

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There's some truth to your angle however this is what this forum is ALL about - mainly to help the public with its inquiries and to reaffirm the philosophical/ethical/moral standard of the preservation of what has survived today. Many blades were purposefully broken and thrown in the ocean etc. Many are in existence however in not so healthy status. 

With that said I think it's a clash of philosophies , not personalities. I may be wrong but this is my angle !

 

Cheers

 

 

Johnnie

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17 hours ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

I remember your other thread got a lot of negativity. I will try to avoid that here.

 

In my opinion it would be a good sword for cutting. What must be noted that these very wide hira-zukuri blades excel at cutting tatami mats. Some might say they could be called as "cheating" as they perform very well. I am not a martial artist but I do think people might have bit too strong restrictions about sizes. All around the world various historical cultures used blades of varying sizes. In my opinion something like 10 cm difference in length does not mean too radical change. Of course mostly I feel the size differences come into play when drawing the sword from saya and also when performing combination cuts / kata or other movement drills with high speed and variation. I've done some amateur cutting with Japanese style replicas from c. 20 to 100 cm and as you understand the differences in size it isn't in my opinion too much different, with very long blades body physics alter some cutting angles etc. and you can be more creative with shorter blades.

 

Of course if you practice some specific tradition it is of course advisable to discuss with your teacher and his/hers teacher etc. as they can help deciding on a fitting sword.

 

This gives a decent overview of the important considerations to keep in mind; most of it is quite intuitive, but there are some aspects that many wouldn't think of.

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I think we should examine a few facts:

@Barrett Hiebert you initially intended to use a Nanbokucho blade for practice and yet claim that we on the board are being oppressive and elitist? I can't imagine anything more elitist than an individual with no formal training and a delusional sense of martial way who intendends to use a traditional sword for their amature purposes. That is the epitomy of elitism, for you to assume by some measure that you sit on the same platform as the warrior the Nanbokucho sword was made for centuries ago, a student of war who lived by a philosophy not many in the modern martial world can comprehend. It is an insult to the tradition and the generations of care takers that have helped such items exist till today, only to come into your hands for a swift end. 

Then your narcissism extends to switching your stance to the Gassan and finally a Heisei blade until there is some form of acceptance that fills the void in your ego and fundamentally your shoes. I do not presume that there is much depth to your character after this series of events. You are simply a person who is lucky enough to claim to purchase highly valuble antiquity in order to inflate and reinforce your ego and share that with people you know will conflict with your intentions in an effort to validate practices you know are wrong. Hence, Nanbokucho  to Edo to modern. I will not blink if the next thread you post is on foreign made swords for practical use. "Is this okay for cutting, Hanwei sword?" Everyone agrees, and the void is filled till you need another fix and find a forum where "surely one person will agree with me (that is the voice in your head) 

Everyone here has tried tirelessly and patiently to point out your errors, but as i said previously, people like you live in delusional grandeur and it is pointless to keep asking you to empty your glass just a little so it can be filled with fresh water rather than the stagnated pool it currently is. 
 

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Totally agree with nihonto collector.

 

There are groups of people who like to play samurai in their backyards. Most people are influenced by media they see , and not by any proper tradition or actual historical background. They think they can use a blade and gain some satisfaction from cutting up bottles ect. To test a modern sword that is fine. Safety be on their heads. But I think it's arrogance and signs of narcissism to ignore advice and purposely provoke people who you know are against cutting fruit with a nihonto. 

 

But Barrett should at least understand that this hobby will get boring very quickly. As its empty and not so gratifying 

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Study to me is cutting, practicing kata, familiarizing myself with a blade.  I was merely suggesting cutting fruit as a soft medium to not ruin the blade, test out its handling characteristics. I didn’t think that such would be disrespectful to a blade. I would be meticulous with maintenance afterwards. Of course eventually I would get a tameshigiri cutting stand for optimized traditional cutting.

 

If I had a legitimate Ryu available I’d be there. If I could go to Iaido I’d be there. Sadly these things aren’t available.

 

Think what you want. That’s your right.

 

All things wax and wane.

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The topic of tameshigiri has been explored on enough threads, that there's no need to repeat. However, when you reach a certain level of proficiency in iaido, practicing real cutting can bring some new understanding.

 

I've taught tameshigiri in my iaido dojo for 20 years, & happened to mention that to my Sensei in his kenjutsu dojo, where my wife & I have trained for 15 years. He asked me to bring in my cutting stand, & enough tatami omote for all the students to do a few cuts. At the end of that session, both Sensei & most students were astonished to find that they couldn't cut corrrectly. They knew the theory (Sensei for more than 50 years), but knowing something is a lot different than doing it.

 

If Mr. Hiebert chooses to self-teach, it doesn't bother me, because he isn't in a dojo where someone else could get hurt. However, I do wonder why he is spending time on NMB, where we choose to do things differently? I do advise him to buy a modern shinken, that can handle pretty much any cutting without bending, rather than a Nihonto, which the rest of us are interested in preserving.

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But the thing is your not practicing kata ? As you don't yet unfortunately have a iaido dojo. Your mimicking what you perceive to be kata, but in reality is not how the blade is or was handled. Which is a more injustice to yourself. In this scenario buy a Japanese made iaito. I just hope your not going to do any iaido sword drawing with a live blade. At least have that caution. 

 

A modern blade is more forgiving aswell.

 

But what I'm afraid your entertaining Barrett are pure fantasies.

 

Regards 

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13 hours ago, Paz said:

 

Jste začátečník v bojových uměních "JSA", která zahrnují tameishigiri. Nerad to říkat. Jste začátečník v japonském šermu. Evropské umění meče není totéž. 

 Nechápu, proč chceš řezat nihontem. Za téměř deset let budo jsem nikdy nenarazil ani na toho nejzačlejšího nadšence typu anime, který by snil o řezání starožitným ostřím přes tisíc dolarů.

 

 

I think you've seen little. I saw chopping with much more expensive swords. It's "just" iron. A weapon created for a purpose. . And yes, you may think you are a bigger pope than the pope himself (which is common in the West). but what effect does it have on the running of the universe? NOTHING.
Obviously you have a huge respect for nihonto. Your thing. I approach it soberly. Like the Japanese, the surface is extremely polite, and decent. Inside, they are rotten most deceived. 

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I don't think I can judge a person's mindset by their comments here on NMB, and until now, no harm has been done to a person or a valuable blade.  But I am optimistic that as soon as Barrett receives such a wonderful piece of arts and crafts by the post and unpacks it, this item will probably speak to him and touch his heart in a way that he feels what it is that the smith tried to build into it.

In traditional Japanese thinking, they sometimes mention a KAMI "dwelling" in beautiful rocks, trees and handmade objects. We may see that differently, and perhaps it is only a feeling inside those who are 'communicating' with these things. So I will be patient, and hope that a valuable sword speaks in a very special way to Barrett. This could change attitudes, but that is his way, and we cannot influence it.

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15 minutes ago, YOJIMBO said:


Obviously you have a huge respect for nihonto. Your thing. I approach it soberly. Like the Japanese, the surface is extremely polite, and decent. Inside, they are rotten most deceived. 

 

I'm sure this is just lost in translation?

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