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Did I Buy a Bizen and not realize it?


Winchester

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Yes it is most likely from Bizen province if the signature is good (and I would not personally doubt it too much). There were lots and lots of Sukesada smiths working in the late Muromachi period and if the signature does not have "personal name" it will be very difficult to identify unless the work is spectacular from which experts can agree on which Sukesada most likely made the particular item.

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Thank you, Jussi. I wish I knew which one it was. The person I bought it from said it was unusual to be dated, as 1580. Perhaps that would allow someone to narrow it down?

 

I like it and it is just for my personal enjoyment, no resell. Just want to learn more is all. 

 

I am planning to have it lettered or paperwork done some time in 2022. Again, just for my interest.

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As Jussi mentioned - yes, Bizen, yes - authentic (rarely (if at all) anyone would fake a signature of such piece And put a date on it), no - it is not mass produced sword (look at the overall quality of hada + hamon). Definitely worth sending for shiage (it might not even need that as there are no kizu or any issues whatsoever) just to bring out the hamon and hada better and then send it to be papered. Similar dated Sukesada wakizashi from the same era were advertised on Aoi website for about 5k. It is a good work made during war times when many blades had to be produced as the demand was high, however most were inferior to the standard and mostly unsigned or signed but by the pupils of the smith. Signed and dated works from those years usually (but not always) speak for 'special' order which gives me extra confidence of its authenticity.

 

 

J.

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Brian

You need to look at “Sukesada” as, at best, a large workshop and at worst a school in terms of size, designation and taxonomy group. What I mean best / worst is simply: best chances to identify a particular smith or slimmest chance, due to the sheer size of that family of smiths that survived the big Bizen flooding which wiped out the Bizen 1000 forges…

 

If unnamed, it will be extremely difficult, unless the condition and quality are topmost and then again - you might struggle. 
 

One of the leading Sukesada who signed during 1580 is the second (nidai) Yosozaemon. 
 

So, it is a bonus that the sword is signed. 

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Tensho 10, (1582) seems a little late for any Yoso. The records are confusing but the latest I can find is a third generation serving Ukita Hideie and working for Hideyoshi around 元亀 1570-73. Early name Sukemitsu. Third son of the first gen, and disciple of his older brother, the second son. 

Michael, what source material are you using?

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Piers

 That is a tough one indeed. Even M Sesko’s volume is not clear on that perfectly as it has a couple of second and third generations and I have not looked too much further. 
But below are a couple of blades with dates 1570-1580 signed by Yosozaemon. The Juyo one of 1570 in the oshigata is specifically highlighted in brackets after the signature as the nidai. 
 

I would not get my hopes up by expecting an Yosozaemon (at least not until confirmed by the NBTHK)as he would most likely have signed with his name but even a school piece work with a date is great. 

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Thank you Michael for the considered reply.

 

Regardless of the fine detail, it seems that I must mentally adjust the later limit of the immediate 'Yosozaemon' family bracket, although I recognize that real gems of typical work do continue to pop up throughout the following generations.

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