Help with a blade, should I restore or should I not ?

[Jon]

I need. Bit of help deciding if I should get a polish and restoration work done on a blade. I’ve been trying to research but as the blade is not polished I’m hitting a bit of a wall. The blade was inherited and has been in the family for 3 generations ( it was picked up by a GI great uncle in WW2).

 
I had always assumed it would be a arsenal stamped blade...but joy was unbound when I got a look at the tang and realised I had a Nihonto of some age ( if very battered).

 

I have only been studying it for a few months, using a couple of texts ( John Yumoto,s hand book) and the internet. Examination of the steel structure was with a good watchmakers x12 loupe and high powered examination light.

 

so:

Its a Daito with a blade at a shade over 2 Shaku ( 68.5 cm/26.5 inches) 

 

Tang, is essentially black with almost all details gone with age. If you look with the eye and examination light, you can see what could have once been some characters ( but there would be no way to ever read or identify). File marks have pretty much gone the same way with age, but with the  x12 mag and loupe you’re can see the remains of slanting left file marks-Suji-chigia- I’m 100% on the angle of these as I could measure against reference pictures under the magnification. 
 

The end of the tang seems to have been removed at some point, it looks like it started life as a ha-agari Kuri- juri ( uneven U shape) but now only has the curve on the blade side with the very and and ridge side being cut flat. This was clearly not a new modification as it’s as black as the rest of the tang. There are two menkugi-ana they are very close ( with 1-2 mm of each other and it would suggest the second was added at the same time as the tang end modification ( a very slight shortening of the blade maybe ?). The tang shape as a whole: flat along the ridge line with a mild curve at the blade end, the curve deeps in the second half of the tang ( I’ve not found a description of this shape ?)

 

Kissaki: looks to be curved edged ( Fukura-tsuka). The Yokote seems to have been polished out completely, there is no visible Yokote on the left side of the blade and what looks like the remains of the Yokote on the right side ( more a movement of light on the blade that a physical line). I think the Kissaki  is long ( o-Kissaki) at 3 cm ?

 

Ridge line is raised ( Shinogi Takashi), the Shinogi Ji is very narrow( ridge area), the middle of the blade is 25mm with the ridge area being 8mm. The top ridge is a low back ( Mune-hikushi). There are no groves (hi) carvings or inscriptions on the blade.

 

blade: shape, curvature is is a shallow torii. With the deepest curve dead centre of the blade, the blade is 68.5 cm and the centre of curve is 34.2cm in from the tip ( dead centre) the curve is 1.5cm deep at the mice point, the curve is constant across the length of the blade ( very constant indeed. The blade is strait and 25mm at mid point, 29mm at the Habaki. Blade shape looks to be Shinogi- zukuri ( but with a raised ridge). 
 

Ive examined the steel grain under a 12 mag loupe and inspection light, it’s looks like Masame-hada, it’s very tight grain. What is interesting is the top ridge has its own grain structure running like a high angled back slash from one side to the other. The blade itself is clearly different steel again, so it looks like it’s could be at least three types of steel, so a Makuri-Gitae contruction ? there are ware lines about five mm up from the blade and 1 mm down from the ridge line.

 

now the problems. 
 

it’s got a large number of chips in the blade, I’ve examined these under x12 mag and they look cut marks into the blade ( the deepest  of them have a blade shaped cross section, it’s impressive to see the damage to the hardened steel under high mag. All the chips are small less than .5mm with the blade shaped chip being 1 mm deep. One very small chip ( .2mm)  has a hagire at the edge of the chip, the hargire is not visible to the naked eye or with magnifying glass using an inspection light, it can only be seen with a x12 mag loupe, it’s only 1.2mm in length so it’s not likely to be anywhere near all the way to the top of the tempered edge, It’s 5cm from the tip.
 

the tempered line Hamon is just about visible on some of the blade ( with an inspection lamp) mostly towards the Habaki and for around 10cm. From what you can just about see it’s a stray straight ( suguha hotsure) about an average of 9mm to a cm deep. But that’s a Heavy guess with so little remaining of the polish.

 

the ridge line looks like it’s taken a couple of sword cuts in its time as well and there are some vertical sets of damage to the blade that if your being imaginative could be from an arrow cut. 
 

Mounting wise it’s Burke-Zukruri. The saya is black lacquer, it’s looking like an original and the blade fits well, it has taken a lot of damage in its life, some of it looks like it may be a light sword cut or two. Fuchi is very nice and in very good condition, the workmanship is brilliant with raised crickets in in gold on one side and the other is raised and painted in gold with flowers and leaves, menuki are clam shell design, they are not metal but appear to be some kind of polished brown stone that’s been carved. Kashiwa is highly decorated with very heavy raised detailing  of flowers and leaves, it has some gold detail, tsuba is iron with a hare in grass, there is a signature on the base. The Habaki is well fitted for the blade. One of the biggest problems is the tsuka is not made for the blade and the Mekugi does not line up.

 

 

so my decision is around what restoration to undertake ? Do I go the whole hog and get a polish, fit the tsuka correctly and repair the saya ( as it’s probably some sword cuts I would like to restore the saya and not change it). Or do I just keep it for what it is now.

 

Also if anyone has any thoughts about Period the blade could have been made or school etc ?

 

thanks all, sorry for the ramble I’m new to Japanese swords.

 

jon 

 

[Jon]

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[Nihontocollector752]

From the initial puctures it is really difficult to asses what this is. At a glance it looks to be a Muromachi blade that has been shortened, worst case it could be much later and doesn't have the requirements for value on a later period blade. I feel it should just be left as it is. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

With a sword like this, where there is somewhat limited market value, the best reason to have it restored is sentimental. Considering it is a family heirloom, you have a good reason to restore it. The costs of such a restoration are not insignificant, upwards of 2-3000 dollars for professional restoration. There are a number of collectors in the UK who would have some suggestions in terms of reliable, trained people to contact.

[Jon]

Thankyou John and Jimmy, really helpful thankyou. I’m thinking that I will go for a light restoration, just making sure the Damaged saya lacquer is stabilised and collar refitted, get the Mekugi-ana sorted so the Tsuka is fitted safely to the blade. I will also chat to one of the U.K. polishers to see if some of the characteristics can be returned to the blade.

 

i don’t really mind spending a thousand or so as there was no financial cost to the blade and making it safe, easier to study and persevered for future generations is probably worth a thousand or so ? if I ever was forced to sell I would imagine even a low value blade is going to be worth close to that, so I could get most of my money back if needed ? After all I’ve seen rubbish arsenal guntos sold for close to that as my old man has a antiques store ).

 

What I was really worried about was messing with a blade that should have gone back to Japan for a full restoration ( I’m one of those people who worry about cultural responsibility around historic items).  I’m sort of pleased it’s not as my wife would not be keen on me shipping the blade to Japan and spending many thousands. 
 

cheers guys and have a great new year.

 

Jon 

[Alex A]

Difficult Jon, from the dimensions it kind of reminds me of a mid 1600s blade.

 

Perhaps if you joined something like the Token society you would get more advice. Last i heard we were down to one experienced polisher and he lives in Scotland. Perhaps have a word with him about what he thinks.  

 

If you do get the blade polished then its best to have a new shirasaya made too, another expense.

 

A case or working out what is what and how much you want to spend.

 

You do see some questionable polishing about in the UK, commercial polish. Im not sure who does these but wish they would stop.

 

Mike Hickman-Smith is well known for Shirasaya, lacquer etc, perhaps speak to him also.

[Nihontocollector752]

Take all comments with a neutral view. There is the possibility of having a window on the sword polished to reveal the exact nature of the hamon and hada to confirm what you see. The fact you describe masame in this blade could also point to a Nanbokucho Yamato sword but you also describe 2 to 3 different characters of jigane which is characteristic of later period (measuments taken to account).

 

If you want a window polished to see it clearly then talk to your local society or wait till it's the right time to send it to Japan (which your society or club will also be able to assist you with, i think) 

 

Also, better pictures will be a big help if you want to discuss this here further. Plenty of threads on how to get that result exist on the forum.

[Jon]

^{Cheers. Jimmy}

I will see if I can get some decent pictures, unfortunately I’ve not got a proper camera, just my IPad, so I may need to borrow one.

 

The window polish seems like a great idea, thankyou for that.

 

happy Christmas and new year.

[tbonesullivan]

Wow, that edge is really chewed up at one point. Can you see any of the HAMON? If you can see it, and any of the denting / chips go past the edge of the hamon, it wouldn't be worth it to have it set to a togishi.

[Jon]

20 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

Wow, that edge is really chewed up at one point. Can you see any of the HAMON? If you can see it, and any of the denting / chips go past the edge of the hamon, it wouldn't be worth it to have it set to a togishi.

Hi David

 

interestingly the chips although extensive are actually real shallow, the deepest is only 1 mm. From the Hamon that’s there the temper line is actually pretty high averaging around 9mm so they are not looking like they come anywhere near the edge of the Hamon.

[Gilly1985]

Hi 

can anyone provide me with Mike Hickman Smiths contact details please? 

[Reinier]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:37 PM, Gilly1985 said:

Hi 

can anyone provide me with Mike Hickman Smiths contact details please? 

 

I have the same question. I have a shirasaya that needs repair.

[ROKUJURO]

On 12/29/2021 at 1:48 PM, Jon said:

....I will see if I can get some decent pictures, unfortunately I’ve not got a proper camera, just my IPad, so I may need to borrow one....

Jon,

even with a phone camera, you could take photos that would allow the experts to see something. When you make pictures, please take care of the correct orientation!
 

-  NAKAGO photos with tip (KISSAKI) pointing upwards

-- no hardware on the blade

-  photos taken directly from above

-  with light from the side

-  well focused (!)

-  close-ups of the NAKAGO, KISSAKI, HAMON, and HADA, if possible

-  against a dark background to get a good contrast (not a bed....)

-  preferably presented as cut-out so nothing is distracting from the item

[GeorgeLuucas]

3ish years later @Jon, any updates on this particular blade?