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Nihonto Circle of Life?


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I wonder, specially for folks who might not have a plan for their collection in the long term future, have you guys started thinking about passing some of your treasures on to new caretakers not so much to fund a new purchase but in the event that your sword will outlast your stewardship? I have a meager collection and I already have nephews eyeballing some of my blades (and I already know they wont get any of them since it will not be taken care of). I definitely have some swords that I definitely will pass on sooner as someone's first nihonto and I have given some as housewarming presents to dear friends of Japanese heritage. But what does the future hold for us? I saw Stephen sell one of his prized katanas, carefully selecting the next caretaker. Ron has also started liquidating his collection. Have you seen this cycle in your years of collecting? How do you pass your collection off? Sell? Give? 

 

Edit: As Rob pointed out, it looks like there was a great discussion about this very topic a few years back! Let me ask the question a little differently. How do you assess that its time to let go of your collection or even a singular blade for that matter? Aside from needing the funds for other purchases, what goes through your line of thinking when you give up a sword or like Ron Watson, liquidate the whole thing and put it all behind you. When you gave up the collection, did you have any regrets or is it just a good do-over? 

 

 

Ben

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A very personal matter to consider. For me, it is all about making sure each piece makes it to the next generation. Yes, they are investments/retirement plan pieces to me, but I also wish to make sure they will be appreciated and not abused by their next custodian. I think taking the approach that Stephen took is best, carefully curating who they'll be passed onto is ideal. I think selling them to fellow collectors is only part of the solution; I think what is more critical is encouraging, educating, and raising the next generation of collectors. For if we do not have knowledgeable and invested younger folk in this hobby/passion, it will surely die out. This would spell the end of many a piece, and the neglect of many more.

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I don't have a lot of Nihonto. I do have a very decent WW2 collection and it's mostly going to my son (probably everything else as well). He takes good care of things and he's a good kid. But that's a LONG way off for both of us. He's 14 and I'm 36. Luckily we both have the same taste in things. I started out collecting when I was younger than him and in that time I've met a lot of collectors that were not so fortunate. Often it seems the kids actually dislike their fathers collection or don't care about it. I had a friend who was a very advanced M1 carbine collector who passed away about 6 years ago and only one of his son's was even slightly interested in his collection and from what I understand only the monetary aspect of it. He sold off the collection which is fine. Probably for the best I know his father would be happy he got something for it and that his carbine's ended up with good homes. However because he didn't understand the subject or have any respect for it he had all the parts including stocks hauled off to the dump. His father would be rolling in his grave if he knew his parts all ended up in the trash. He cared more about some of those parts then he did about entire rifles. Things like this have lead to some collectors I know attaching tags to items in their collection with instructions on where it should end up or how much it should be sold for in the event of their passing. Seems a bit morbid to me but it gives them piece of mind. One friend who probably has a very extensive GWOT collection said he plans to appoint a friend to oversee his collection when he passes. Some items he wants to go to curtain people some items he wants sold and the money to go to his family and some he wants given to younger collectors that show potential. There's a lot of ways to handle it but if I was in the position where I didn't have anyone to leave it to I think this would be the way I would want it to go as well. 

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1 hour ago, ChrisW said:

I think what is more critical is encouraging, educating, and raising the next generation of collectors.

This hobby, unfortunately, has a very high price of entry. Both in terms of cost and in terms of time spent learning and reading. I know I've been on and off with the hobby for just a few years and just recently got into purchasing some more advanced books. With that said, encouraging, educating and raising the next generation requires a lot of patience (and not to make too much of a general statement but alot of nihonto hobbyists are set in their ways and few have the patience to spare). I for one, engage my 14 year old son in these types of pursuits. A few years ago, we purchased a shinto gimei katana at the SF sword show (Sunday Super sale special) so he can look after it. We changed some pieces of it but its now time to pass it on. So I'll pass it on to someone at the cost I bought it for. 

 

For my collection, I think ultimately I will cycle through them and see if I can find like minded individuals who liked the same stuff I like. Mostly shinto and shin shinto swords. But chances are, I will probably do this sooner rather than later. It will form good bonds and friendships that way. Learning together is better for propagating interest in this pursuit. Succeed together, fail together. 

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My wife has dibbs on my collection, she knows how much it's worth! Ha!  I've made a catalog of the swords, so when she goes to sell them off, she'll be able to list them properly.  I also have contact info of a couple of our NMB guys she can contact for advice on how to move them.  To be sure, though, I'm certain not a sword would go, as I have to harass her constantly just to get a bag or 2 of crap that's been hoarded in the basement for the last 40 years, off to Goodwill! 

 

At first, my gut wish was that the whole lot could be kept together.  But I realize that even if each piece were sold separately, they would simply go into the hands of a collector that needed just that piece for the missing item in their own collection.  So, I'm not so worried about it anymore.

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Ben this is a good subject and one we should al give some thought to, regardless of age...yes it is an unfortunate fact of life that death can come to any of us unexpectedly :(

 

Im sure there will be some good ideas on this subject but for your own interest and interest of newer members, there are some great comments and ideas on a similar thread started by Peter Bleed in 2019 .... dont know how to link it but it called  What should happen to collections? so should be easy to search on. 

:)

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4 hours ago, robinalexander said:

Ben this is a good subject and one we should al give some thought to, regardless of age...yes it is an unfortunate fact of life that death can come to any of us unexpectedly :(

 

Im sure there will be some good ideas on this subject but for your own interest and interest of newer members, there are some great comments and ideas on a similar thread started by Peter Bleed in 2019 .... dont know how to link it but it called  What should happen to collections? so should be easy to search on. 

:)

That's it Rob!  I couldn't find it, of course using my World-famous horrible searching skills!  3 pages of answers!

 

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I sold my collection of RFC and early RAF medals because (a bit like Jean with his nihonto collection) I'd achieved what I set-out to do when I started collecting (with the exception of a VC group which was out of my league by a factor of about 10-times the cost of my next most expensive group!). 

Most of the groups went to like-minded collectors who shared my interest and would appreciate them, as well as appreciating the man and the story behind each group.  I used a forum (like this) to sell them, but sold some to new collectors who showed a real interest, to give them a chance to own some nice groups and build-on the research, as I had built on that of the previous keepers.

 

I absolutely agree with the logic of knowing that potential buyers will appreciate and care for your treasures, but as a new-to-nihonto collector, I have to wonder when I will be considered worthy? Judging by the longevity of some of the collectors on the board, I've probably got another 30-40 years apprenticeship to serve!  Having said that, I'm no spring-chicken myself, so perhaps I too should be thinking of "disposing", not buying?  :laughing:

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

 

 

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10 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

My wife has dibbs on my collection, she knows how much it's worth! Ha!  I've made a catalog of the swords, so when she goes to sell them off, she'll be able to list them properly.  I also have contact info of a couple of our NMB guys she can contact for advice on how to move them.  To be sure, though, I'm certain not a sword would go, as I have to harass her constantly just to get a bag or 2 of crap that's been hoarded in the basement for the last 40 years, off to Goodwill! 

<snip>

 

I've done the same, but if there's advance notice the end is near, I'll try to sell them myself.  If not, I want her to sell them and spend the money on what she enjoys.  

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25 minutes ago, FZ1 said:

but sold some to new collectors who showed a real interest, to give them a chance to own some nice groups and build-on the research, as I had built on that of the previous keepers.

I love this! That's how I think about it too! More often than not, I will meet someone who is living kinda far from a big city who is scouring the local pawn shops for samples. I have 3 swords that I started with and I always offer them at cost (after helping them search for the beginner's resources/books online of course).  I think this is the only way to help propagate this hobby. Even for me, I just started this year in buying more advance study books and these are probably the most expensive books I've ever purchased! From a beginner's standpoint, its like wanting to get into cars as a hobby but everyone is telling them to buy the car repair manual first! So it can be a losing battle when you are trying to get someone new into this hobby that might share your excitement over it.

 

My family appreciates what I have. I think my sons will probably take good care of them because they do see me dote over the blades and just quietly doing maintenance on them. If anything, it might be a sentimental way to remember me by. 

 

The first time I went to a sword show, this man and woman walks in to the room. They find an empty table. There was an announcement that there are some new sellers just came in and I kid you not, everyone came flocking to the table and they were so overwhelmed. it was like ringing the dinner bell for a bunch of pups! The husband and wife just kept glancing at each other as people were taking the swords apart and giving offers. Apparently, one of their relatives had passed away and they were just trying to sell the swords. They had no idea what the prices were. I guess hat might be a happy ending for those who are left with the collection?

 

I wonder though how many collections are quietly brought to a pawn shop or put in a closet. A few years ago, my wife and I inherited a collection of jazz vinyl albums. They've been in the closet for 20+ years. Stored in a box. Maybe I need to take a look over them this weekend as I'm sure, the previous owners doted on them and enjoyed listening to their music.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, vajo said:

My plan is after passing to give it to Christies or Herman Historica and they make a nice book which you can buy for $25. The title will be: Collection of a honorable man and gentleman. :laughing:

I would put a stipulation that in the middle of the book, there needs to be a nude Playboy centerfold. Or at least, you on a bearskin rug in your birthday suit holding all your swords!

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1 hour ago, bnacorda said:

I would put a stipulation that in the middle of the book, there needs to be a nude Playboy centerfold. Or at least, you on a bearskin rug in your birthday suit holding all your swords!

Thats such a funny idea. I must notice it :laughing:

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13 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

as I have to harass her constantly just to get a bag or 2 of crap that's been hoarded in the basement for the last 40 years, off to Goodwill! 

Well, in our Goodwill, you have to drive around the 2 bags in your trunk for a few weeks before dropping it off. Or is that custom just in my house?

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I’ve had a few close calls and spent time thinking about this subject. One of my sons collects Japanese swords and we often trade books and blades between us. Another son is also interested, knowledgeable and would properly care for them.  I think I will just continue to enjoy what I have knowing they will be taken care of or sold to other collectors who will preserve them when I’m gone. I’m doing my part to continue the study and preservation of Japanese swords and art by leaving two collectors to replace me. 

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5 hours ago, Apercus said:

I’ve had a few close calls and spent time thinking about this subject. One of my sons collects Japanese swords and we often trade books and blades between us. Another son is also interested, knowledgeable and would properly care for them.  I think I will just continue to enjoy what I have knowing they will be taken care of or sold to other collectors who will preserve them when I’m gone. I’m doing my part to continue the study and preservation of Japanese swords and art by leaving two collectors to replace me. 

If only we all could be so successful!

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