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June Hozon Shinsa Results


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Finally some good news from Japan! The two blades (a Katana and a Wakizashi/Sun Nobi Tanto) that I had in for Shinsa since June have both passed for Hozon. I have to get some restoration work done on the koshirae of one of them, and also have to get a shirasaya made as it does not have one. So it will probably be a few more months before I actually have them in hand.

 

I don't have a full report on the details of the Shinsa. I only know that they have passed at this time. I suppose that it will take another month or two before the Origami are actually produced. I have never gone through this process before, and really had no idea how long things take to happen. I will be curious to see the results for the Katana especially as it had two sets of older kicho papers. It was judged as Fujishima the first time and judged as Shitahara the second time.

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On 9/18/2021 at 11:20 AM, ckaiserca said:

have never gone through this process before, and really had no idea how long things take to happen. I will be curious to see the results for the Katana especially as it had two sets of older kicho papers. It was judged as Fujishime the first time and judged as Shitahara the second time.

 

Let me be a REALLY bad person here:

600-1000$ depending on transport options spent to replace completely satisfactory judgements assigned to mid-grade items. Just so that the "experts" don't laugh at you for having green papers.

 

Based on kicho papers, the sugata is most likely from the very end of Muromachi but not the o-kissaki type or something else which would hint towards Nambokucho possibilities. 

It has some Soshu flavor, nie based wide hamon. Shitahara hints towards active mokume.

 

Even without seeing the sword, but out of sheer arrogance:

So it can't be Kamakura Soshu, can't be Nambokucho Soshu... For late Muromachi or even early Shinto suriage work like that there are myriad options, all more or less valid. You can then submit it to both NTHK and you will get another two, different judgements, but from the same period and roughly the same level of smith.

Its not like "Shitahara" ko-waki which can easily jump to late Nambokucho Soshu. Or O-Kissaki Soshu blade judged to Tsunahiro, which can if kasane is thin enough move all the way to Hasebe.

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> Just so that the "experts" don't laugh at you for having green papers.

 

It's because the papers are (a) disavowed (b) were not intended at the time of their writing to be as strict as current papers (c) purposefully abused to take advantage of collectors to the point that people went to prison.

 

Being part of flushing the rest of the green papers out of the system, so they are not lying there as traps and time bombs to future collectors, is a good thing.

 

Unless of course someone depends on a class of disavowed, exaggerated, or purposefully corrupt "authentication papers" to sell one's inventory.

 

Again, none of this is confusing in the Japanese dealer community. The average quality of the papers is considered junk and people do not present items to each other with a green paper with some kind of implication that it has any bearing on what you're looking at. The only places that green papers get pumped heavily as being reliable is in the west. Usually in the context of "wants to sell you something."

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rivkin said:

 

Let me be a REALLY bad person here:

600-1000$ depending on transport options spent to replace completely satisfactory judgements assigned to mid-grade items. Just so that the "experts" don't laugh at you for having green papers.

 

 

The blade in question was in Japan already, so it only cost me an extra $300 (CAD) for the Shinsa. The other blade had no papers. Thanks for your input.

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I'm reasonably sure I've heard about a Hozon+Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa in one. Was the one you applied for like that or just Hozon? 

 

If I'm mistaken I'll be happy to be corrected. I'm curious as to the price difference if they still or at all do double shinsa sessions.

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2 minutes ago, Fuuten said:

I'm reasonably sure I've heard about a Hozon+Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa in one. Was the one you applied for like that or just Hozon? 

 

If I'm mistaken I'll be happy to be corrected. I'm curious as to the price difference if they still or at all do double shinsa sessions.

 

That's usually done for suriage blades when there is a solid chance of pre-Muromachi attribution. TH Tegai then with non-Nambokucho sugata would imply Kamakura date, for example.

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23 minutes ago, Fuuten said:

I'm reasonably sure I've heard about a Hozon+Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa in one. Was the one you applied for like that or just Hozon? 

 

If I'm mistaken I'll be happy to be corrected. I'm curious as to the price difference if they still or at all do double shinsa sessions.

You can apply for both, but I did not, as I was guaranteed passing Hozon, but not Tokubetsu. It would have cost roughly $100.00 more if I had submitted for both and only passed Hozon. If it had passed both, it would have cost about $630.00 total.

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22 minutes ago, Fuuten said:

If you don't mind me asking, were the chances perceived to be low for Tokubetsu Hozon because of the current polish or something else (hagire)? Because otherwise one would think the increase in value one have to be greater than 600 or say a thousand.

This was based on the estimated age of the blades and the fact that they were both mumei. As a general rule, Muromachi and Edo period mumei blades may not receive a Tokubetsu Hozon paper.  This can change if the blade is really outstanding and can be easily attributed to a famous smith or school. 

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