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Kai Gunto saya types compared


Kolekt-To

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On a whim this evening I decided to lay out three of my Type 97's to compare their sayas - photos attached. In the first photo, from Left to Right: Toyokawa arsenal with black lacquer saya, Toyokawa arsenal with lacquered shagreen (shark skin) saya, Tenshozan Forge with lacquered ray skin saya. In the second photo, close-ups of the sayas' surfaces from Top to Bottom: Tenshozan Forge with ray skin saya, Toyokawa Arsenal with shagreen saya, Toyokawa Arsenal with black lacquered saya. I find the various Kai Gunto saya types interesting.

Kai Guntos_3 of mine.jpg

Kai Guntos_3 of mine_Saya close-ups.jpg

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  • 4 months later...

Can't find a thread dedicated to talking specifically about kaigunto fittings, so if @Kolekt-To doesn't mind, I'll start using this one a general reference thread for the topic.

 

I know Nick Komiya made a post showing the leather saya covers for kaigunto were to be black or blackened, but I don't have that reference.  If any Truly Gifted searchers, @Kiipu comes to mind, could dig that out and post here, I'd appreciate it.  Otherwise, I can spend the next several years digging it out, and I'll update here!

 

I mention this because I just came across this photo showing some kaigunto, a couple of them leather covered.  One is dark, as expected, the other looks to be natural leather color.  I appreciate this photo because I have a Navy takayama-to with a brown leather cover.  It's always bothered me, as I've wondered if it were original or post-war made.  This photo shows that the natural colored covers were in use by navy officers. 

 

 

Light Brown leather on kaigunto.webp

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I have not studied the kaigunto in depth, but in my casual exposure to the type, the single haikan (ashi) starts appearing toward the end of the war, so "older" simply means earlier in the war.  The uniform regs were changed in the last year of the war to allow for single haikan and looser specifications to detail.  Even non-guilded fittings were specified.

 

I have seen pierced tsuba for a leather retention strap, but it is uncommon in my memory.

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For those sayas with leather combat covers for the Type 97, is the actual saya usually a plain wood, or is black lacquer finish more common? And, except for the double Ashi earlier version, how would a single Ashi leather-covered Navy saya differ from that of leather-covered Army saya? Would a black lacquer finish determine the difference? Would there be any discernible difference?

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This is a much older blade in mounts that looks a little put together that I saw a while ago.

it has a pierced tsuba and a wooden saya but no leather cover over it, no idea what's going on with it but it has a few interesting bits and pieces 

 

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19 hours ago, Kolekt-To said:

Thanks for your post Tony!

Do we know if plain wood sayas were the most common to be fitted with combat covers, or was the black lacquer finish type most common?

Geoff,

I don't know the real answer to that.  Maybe someone who studies koshirae, like @PNSSHOGUN, or someone who collects kaigunto has more of a feel for that.   I know that late-war gunto, both army and navy, were being mounted in the black-lacquered wood with leather cover.  Earlier mounts were more of a mixture of every combination.

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On 1/30/2022 at 11:49 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

I know Nick Komiya made a post showing the leather saya covers for kaigunto were to be black or blackened, but I don't have that reference.  If any Truly Gifted searchers, @Kiipu comes to mind, could dig that out and post here, I'd appreciate it.  Otherwise, I can spend the next several years digging it out, and I'll update here!

 

Bruce, @Bruce Pennington    maybe this is not the full answer to your question but by chance, the message below just popped up on another current thread.

 

Different-species Gunto & Civilian army employee swords (ohmura-study.net)  ----- Army civilian employee Gunto by Bruno

 

 

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