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Rivkin
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Thanks for posting this. Interesting blade.

 

Tobiyaki, irregular nie clusters and incrustations, nioiguchi with violent fluctuations, I would put it squarely into muromachi, Sue-Soshu. Clearly harkens back to Hiromitsu/Akihiro, offshoot later branch. My guess is Shimada. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Rivkin said:

Since it was up for sometime, let me steal the knowledge from the internet. The school's founder, whose style is basically retained in this piece - this is how its portrayed in oshigata.

mumu.jpg

looks like Sanjo

 

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3 minutes ago, Brano said:

looks like Sanjo

 

 

With a different, i.e. Kamakura shape here.

Hoping not to sound too professorial, but that's what the earliest pieces look like - Yamato, Soshu, Bizen (ko choji) all in one piece.

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1 hour ago, Rivkin said:

 

There might be a connection, but different period and island.

I know I am going to demonstrate my complete ignorance and I don’t mean to take the thread sideways… I really do want to learn the terms being used.  When the Enju (Higo province) bid was given tori yoku (wrong province but correct kaido - main road and period), I started looking at Sanindo examples and attributes.  Other than completely wrong school/smith, where did I go wrong on the main road assumption?  I’ll assume I misunderstood tori yoku?   Thank you.

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I am definitely the last person to be relied upon for proper understanding of the terminology and rules, but:

the blade is Ayanokoji, Kamakura. In most tables this is dozen to things like Munechika and maybe something like Rai Kuniyuki.

With Enju I had to look up the tables, and (I hope I got this one correctly) some books like Conneusiers... placed Enju as tori yoku for Ayanakoji. Rai would be dozen for Enju.

 

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I think you were bit too fast to pull the trigger Kirill. As we are spread among multiple time zones and countries it is different for others. I was actually just looking into this when you posted the answer. :laughing:

 

I can't claim that I would have guessed it. I would have guessed Senjuin. Based on my limited info I could gather from the OP. However as you posted the example by school founder that made my guess kinda impossible. I looked into Tanobes Yamashiro book and there is oshigata of Jūyō blade by Sadatoshi that has quite similar looking upper portion as your hint there.

 

Ayanokōji is fascinating and not too commonly known school, I am puzzled how Sadatoshi is appreciated very highly but rest of the school almost falls into obscurity.

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I'd have never guessed. I associate Ayanokoji with Sadatoshi, which generally displays a finer hada, ko-nie, and profuse nijuba. These are also traits of Sanjo/Gojo. 

 

I think you style of photo really brings out the traits, but on the downside it makes work seem much rougher than they really are. I was also unsure about the hazy white upper portion, whether it was utsuri, or something else. Those tobiyaki all over the place, the irregular nie and relatively coarse nie and hada, the bright contract with the ha, these attributes bring me elsewhere. Utsuri (if this is utsuri) rules it out though. I went through the records and found some Ayanokoji work (although, in the minority) with tobiyaki drawn in the Oshigata. So much to learn. 

 

An enriching experience all in all. 

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On 9/8/2021 at 1:03 PM, Jussi Ekholm said:

<snip> Ayanokōji is fascinating and not too commonly known school, I am puzzled how Sadatoshi is appreciated very highly but rest of the school almost falls into obscurity.

 

I'm curious why that is myself.  When searching for info about Sueyuki, I found several sources that said no signed pieces of his exist; but Darcy says he has seen one.  https://yuhindo.com/ayanokoji-sadatoshi/ 

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I think there are at least 6 signed tachi by Sueyuki. I have 5 on record and I know about the 6th one in Jūyō session 39 but unfortunately I don't have that book yet. There is long one (83,2 cm) at Itsukushima Jinja, the Jūyō 58 one is 80,4 cm and I know 3 signed tachi (77 - 71 cm) with Tokubetsu Hozon papers.

 

For Sadayoshi I have only found 1 signed tachi that is in the collection of Tokyo National Museum.

 

However needless to say they are extremely rare as those are the ones I have found after years of searching. For comparison I have 27 signed pieces for Sadatoshi.

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There are signed Sueyuki, typically they are offered in 10mil yen price range though.

To me Sadatoshi attribution denotes Heian to mid Kamakura sugata and Seuyuki is accordingly mid to end (1250-1310) period. 

In both cases the craft is very antiquated with minimal trace of influences as established by Rai Kuniyuki and other more fashionable school. Obviously condition issues are such that even well preserved work will have somewhat non-uniform jigane, but:

 

The jigane is in general weaker compared to Kuniyuki, the ji nie is less distinctive, the color is noticably whiter and hazier. As in Sanjo work, hamon is ko nie based, there can be prominent masame close to ha producing hotsure/uchinoke and tobiyaki tend to line up with masame lines. There can be rather rough ara nie, though hamon's nie size is very well controlled. Nioiguchi is quite bright, though in books its other qualities tend to be emphasized more. Yakiba can be a strange (antiquated) mixture of ko choji, togari and almost Yamato looking "belts" of nie. Utsuri like in this work can be quite prominent, but its not as clearly defined as in later works (midare? jifu?). Boshi has prominent hakkikake but is rather thin when it begins.

 

I considered waiting a bit more, but I felt bad about people going into completely different directions, maybe in part relying on my answer to Enju quess.

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Quote

I considered waiting a bit more, but I felt bad about people going into completely different directions, maybe in part relying on my answer to Enju quess.

 

Give hints when it's veering off-track by providing some broad clues. It's hard to operate kantei on the internet due to the varying degrees of photographic quality and styles. Another way to give hints is to describe the visual elements on the photography, such as the utsuri, or the boshi. These are traits which are hard to infer upon from photos. 

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