Identification assistance on acquired collection

[10thRoyal]

I've been curious about nihonto for a while now but hadn't wanted to invest the amount of capital necessary for an extensive collection. A couple of weeks ago I came across a small auction service selling the estate of a man who appeared to be assembling loose blades to random furniture. Prices were amazingly low so I got a bit enthusiastic. I think I've identified several swordsmiths but have hit more dead ends than clues. Since I am still learning the hallmarks of different smiths, eras, and regions I felt like this would be place to ask for help. Any and all help or information would be great appreciated. I know that many of the blades are in the rough and destined to be eBay fodder but there are a few that might have been good finds. Bare with me and sorry for the flood. Let the parade of swords begin!

 

Number 1:

 Izumi ??? Kunimitsu

http://imgur.com/gallery/uRTxUca

 

Number 2:

Unmarked wakizashi 

http://imgur.com/gallery/xpzbt2y

 

Number 3:

Naginata signed Yoshishige or Yoshinao?

http://imgur.com/gallery/v3t6noB

 

Number 4:

Sukesada?

http://imgur.com/gallery/U6SB4VH

 

Number 5:

No luck on this one

http://imgur.com/gallery/658n2Ae

 

Number 6:

Another Sukesada?

I have no clue who's idea it was to put the saber handle on there...

http://imgur.com/gallery/n97U4go

 

Number 7:

My personal favorite. Unsigned but beautiful hamon. Saya once had a some sort of identification, illegible now.

http://imgur.com/gallery/aLtwf4n

 

Number 8:

O-kissaki wakizashi. Unsigned.

http://imgur.com/gallery/ox1WvEu

 

Number 9:

Rough condition. Signed. Three parallel lines and one diagonal on reverse of tang.

http://imgur.com/gallery/cjDh3vX

 

Number 10:

Osaka based Yoshimichi?

http://imgur.com/gallery/qEItMB0

 

Have pity on me for the long post, this thing took too long to put together. Any info at all would be appreciated!

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Michael,

welcome to the NMB forum!

It looks as if you have done a nice haul! I like some of your blades a lot!

Starting with

No. 10 I think I can read TAMBA no KAMI YOSHI (MICHI?); SURIAGE

No. 9: BISHU OSAFUNE .....(SURIAGE)

No. 8: I'll take this one!   Nice! Looking at the KOSHIRAE, it was probably not made for the blade. Two SEPPA should be enough.

No. 7: Quite nice indeed!  Dimensions?

No. 6: BIZEN no KUNI SUKESADA. Some officers had their blades mounted like this

No. 5:  KASHU no JU SADAKUNI (?) 

No. 4: BISHU OSAFUNE SUKESADA

No. 3: I have also a tendency for YOSHISHIGE

No. 1:  SENSHU (IZUMI) no JU MINAMOTO  KUNIMITSU







 

[Mark S.]

One of the comments that was made on IMGUR mentioned CLR & steel wool to get rid of rust or clean blades.  Hopefully I am stating the obvious, but PLEASE DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE!!!  If you need help with maintaining these blades please ask here before you do anything. 

[10thRoyal]

42 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

Michael,

welcome to the NMB forum!

It looks as if you have done a nice haul! I like some of your blades a lot!

Starting with

No. 10 I think I can read TAMBA no KAMI YOSHI (MICHI?); SURIAGE

No. 9: BISHU OSAFUNE .....(SURIAGE)

No. 8: I'll take this one!   Nice! Looking at the KOSHIRAE, it was probably not made for the blade. Two SEPPA should be enough.

No. 7: Quite nice indeed!  Dimensions?

No. 6: BIZEN no KUNI SUKESADA. Some officers had their blades mounted like this

No. 5:  KASHU no JU SADAKUNI (?) 

No. 4: BISHU OSAFUNE SUKESADA

No. 3: I have also a tendency for YOSHISHIGE

No. 1:  SENSHU (IZUMI) no JU MINAMOTO  KUNIMITSU







 

Thank you for the welcome! And I am very happy with my hoard. My only regret is that I didn't go for more stuff at the auction. My unfamiliarity with fukuro, or socket, yari made me skip the chance to buy two of them! They went for something like $11 a piece. The items I posted here are actually only a little over half of what I got, though the other half is largely more unmarked blades and those sweet, sweet shin-guntos that fund my hobbies.

 

I thought I was just a bad translator when I kept getting Sukesada as an answer for these and my other blade. But it does look like several are from the same lineage for sure.

 

And yes! I love number 8! The kissaki is almost imperceptible because the angle is so shallow due to the length. Quite elegant! And you missed the part where it also needs three tsubas apparently!

 

As for the dimensions on number 7, the blades is about 22 inches long but feels longer. The blade is surprisingly hefty for it's size.

 

I never considered that number 6 might be more than just a franken-katana. It makes sense though, the handle is surprisingly snug and feels quite useable.

 

15 minutes ago, Mark S. said:

One of the comments that was made on IMGUR mentioned CLR & steel wool to get rid of rust or clean blades.  Hopefully I am stating the obvious, but PLEASE DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE!!!  If you need help with maintaining these blades please ask here before you do anything. 

 

Don't worry, already blocked that guy. I haven't touched them with anything but oil and Renaissance Wax.

[ChrisW]

7 hours ago, 10thRoyal said:

Thank you for the welcome! And I am very happy with my hoard. My only regret is that I didn't go for more stuff at the auction. My unfamiliarity with fukuro, or socket, yari made me skip the chance to buy two of them! They went for something like $11 a piece. The items I posted here are actually only a little over half of what I got, though the other half is largely more unmarked blades and those sweet, sweet shin-guntos that fund my hobbies.

 

I thought I was just a bad translator when I kept getting Sukesada as an answer for these and my other blade. But it does look like several are from the same lineage for sure.

 

And yes! I love number 8! The kissaki is almost imperceptible because the angle is so shallow due to the length. Quite elegant! And you missed the part where it also needs three tsubas apparently!

 

As for the dimensions on number 7, the blades is about 22 inches long but feels longer. The blade is surprisingly hefty for it's size.

 

I never considered that number 6 might be more than just a franken-katana. It makes sense though, the handle is surprisingly snug and feels quite useable.

 

 

Don't worry, already blocked that guy. I haven't touched them with anything but oil and Renaissance Wax.

Avoid ren wax on anything nihonto. It is a micro-crystalline wax and could theoretically scratch the polish of a blade. Most of your blades aren't at risk of damage, but I wouldn't use it on them anyways. Look for something called "choji oil;" some of the associated dealers under the information tab at the top carry it.

[PNSSHOGUN]

For the money you have come into some promising pieces to have polished professionally. Any of us would be happy to get these at $11 a pop!

[mywei]

I like 7, 8 and the naginata 

[10thRoyal]

51 minutes ago, ChrisW said:

Avoid ren wax on anything nihonto. It is a micro-crystalline wax and could theoretically scratch the polish of a blade. Most of your blades aren't at risk of damage, but I wouldn't use it on them anyways. Look for something called "choji oil;" some of the associated dealers under the information tab at the top carry it.

That is good to know. I hadn't read anything outright negative regarding Renaissance Wax but I'll avoid using it on anything decent. Luckily nothing is in good enough polish for anything that fine to harm the finish.

 

25 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

For the money you have come into some promising pieces to have polished professionally. Any of us would be happy to get these at $11 a pop!

Not everything came out to $11 a piece but it wasn't bad. I think I paid $2,500 for 15 wakizashi/katana, a naginata with pole, and a yari with a pole. Not a bad day's work I don't think.

 

You do raise a question I have though. Is any of this actually worth getting polished? I'm aware of the very large financial and time commitment of professional polishing. Add on top of that getting anything papered. How do I know what increases the value more than what I am putting into it? Do I get a professional to appraise them?

[PNSSHOGUN]

I would identify the pieces with most potential in hand with a collector (there are a few in Florida) and sell the rest to pay for the polish. While there are some nice ones quite a few you shared a pretty low on the totem pole, especially with condition issues and no mounts.

[10thRoyal]

For the sake of completeness and to have my own repository of info here are the rest of what I got:

 

Number 11:

http://imgur.com/gallery/MdXPkTp

 

Number 12:

http://imgur.com/gallery/co1sMga

 

Number 13:

http://imgur.com/gallery/eGS2LQV

 

Number 14:

http://imgur.com/gallery/N8xbshr

 

Number 15:

http://imgur.com/gallery/9APqgKh

 

Number 16:

http://imgur.com/gallery/YgZddEA

 

Number 17:

Forgot to add this one to the last batch! The blade is nice but the matching kashira and fuchi are my favorites of the ones I have.

http://imgur.com/gallery/qWmdWTj

 

 

[MarcoUdin]

#15 is a Chinese fake, and you're right 17's fuchi and kashira are very attractive. Overall I would say you did more than well with the money you spent. Congrats!

[10thRoyal]

8 hours ago, MarcoUdin said:

#15 is a Chinese fake, and you're right 17's fuchi and kashira are very attractive. Overall I would say you did more than well with the money you spent. Congrats!

Ah, that would explain why I was stuck trying to identify the stamp in #15. I'll graciously accept the L for that one, hahaha. That was the least painful Chinese fake I've ever purchased.

 

#2 has some great koi ones too.

[10thRoyal]

On 8/19/2021 at 4:24 AM, PNSSHOGUN said:

I would identify the pieces with most potential in hand with a collector (there are a few in Florida) and sell the rest to pay for the polish. While there are some nice ones quite a few you shared a pretty low on the totem pole, especially with condition issues and no mounts.

Do you know the names of any Florida collectors who might be good to talk to off the top of your head? And any of my blades stand out as having potential?

[MarcoUdin]

Ray from Swords of Japan is a dealer who is frequently on this board. I believe he is based in Florida, and I highly recommend reaching out to him.

 

[10thRoyal]

From Ray Singer:

 

Blade 8 - An osuriage mumei blade which has an impressive sugata

Blade 9 - Looks like an authentic, suriage Sue-Bizen blade

Blade 10 - Looks like a suriage Tanba (no) kami Yoshimichi

Blade 7 may be interesting as well. 

 

Also directed me to talk to Ted Tenold for further info and whether they would make good polishing candidates.

[Surfson]

You have done very well Michael!  

 

Most of these swords are authentic samurai swords that would make respectable starter swords for a collection.  

 

While there are a few that may be worthy of restoration, I don't see any that would recoup the cost of polish (meaning that after a polish, shirasaya and maybe habaki, none will be worth more than you have invested in them).   This is just my quick assessment of the collection.  

 

If I were in your situation, I would take great pictures of all of them and sell them one at a time on ebay.  You should have proceeds in the range of triple or quadruple your money I would think.  You can then take the profits and buy yourself a beautiful sword in nice mounts in full polish with papers.  You can sell them in a couple of weeks with slightly more work than you put in to post them here.  And hey, nothing wrong with picking out one or two of your favorites and hanging on to them or even restoring them if you get the urge.

 

Congratulations on a great find!

[10thRoyal]

@Surfson you make a good point. I have emailed Tod but am not expecting him to say that the net value is greater after polishing than it is now. Honestly, this whatever he says I would say I am in a win-win situation for sure.

 

Something I noticed about number 9, that I unfortunately do not have the terminology knowledge to properly describe, is that the thickness of the mune decreases from the habaki to the just before the kissaki at which point it quickly becomes thicker. This morphology reminds me a bit of the change in thickness along the mune of my naginata. Is there a proper term for this and does is signify any particular school or period? Or is this simply an effect of polishing a particular way?

[O koumori]

This sugata is known as U no Kubi-zukuri or "cormorant's neck."

Dan K

[Geraint]

Dear Michael.

 

With respect to Dan I think this is the effect observed when there is a raised or high shinogi.

 

All the best.

[10thRoyal]

If I am understanding this correctly, it appears that the sakikasane and shinogi height are increasing together, with the sakikasane increasing faster than the shinogi height. Following the contour of the blade with a cloth, there is a definite "bulge" at the kissaki. Forgive me for any errors in terminology.

[Geraint]

Dear Michael.

 

Have  look here, http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/shaping.html

 

Just below the photograph is an illustration of kissaki which shows what your sword appears to be like.

 

All the best.