The Katana shinogi takashi is it Koto

[jocayol]

Hello, I would like to introduce you to my surage katana with a takashi shinogi; this results in a section that looks a bit like a rhombus.

 

I have read that the important shinogi were characteristic of the Yamato style, and associated schools (Uda, Mihara, Nio, Kongobei, Naminohira). Some blacksmiths are also known to have forged their blades with wide shinogi.

However, the blade is Saki-zori with an 11mm sori which should (when it was ubu) be around 20mm taking into account the shinogi which extends into the nakago which is rather typical of Bizen.

 

Of course, it is probably impossible to determine a school without holding the blade in hand. My question is more general: Is it fair to think that because of the broad shinogi (shinogi takashi) the blade is Koto ?

Could this blade in particular be early Muromachi or even older ?

Is the temper line Sugu ?

 

 

total length 79cm

with a sori: 16 mm

 

Nagasa: 62 cm

With a sori: 11 mm

 

Moto-kasane: A = 0.60 cm

                         B = 0.49 cm

 

Saki-gasane: A = 0.38 cm

                        B = 0.28 cm

 

Moto Haba 29mm 

Saki Haba 20.8mm

 

Kissagi: 33mm shu kissaki

 

Hada: Masame / itamé ?

Possible school Yamato ?

Saki-zori weak because she is surage

blade weight 515 gr

 

Mekugi: 3

 

 

Thanks for your help

 

Henri-jo

[Valric]

It has the typical shape of a Kanbun shinto piece. The Shinogi is a little wide, but such pieces do exist. Based on the photos, Kissaki has some geometry issues and appears to have been severely re-worked. I can't see the boshi clearly but it appears to run-off on the photo. 

 

However, your Oshigata tells a different story: The boshi speaks against Shinto (it has wavy elements, Shinto generally have a continuous straight boshi). The hamon you've drawn also speaks somewhat against Shinto, it appears there is Nijuba (double hamons) and other types of interesting activity (Hataraki) near the Tang. In addition to Nijuba, I see you've drawn some Tobiyaki (floating dots of hardened steel) which are also a trait of some Koto schools. 

 

If your drawing is accurate, it's not trivial to conclude what it is. While the shape speaks strongly for the Kanbun period, your oshigata tells a somewhat different story. Good work there trying to understand and illustrate your sword visually, I wish this was a more common practice - and probably one of the best educational tool to truly "get" a sword. 

 

Hope this helps. 

[Geraint]

Dear Henri-jo.

 

First let me say that I agree with Chris about your approach to study, it's great to see the detail that you are pursuing.  You are right to say that examining the blade in hand is much better but your drawings help.  

 

It is always a problem to pin down a date from just one feature such as a raised shinogi, what can be made can be copied and various revivals through sword history looked back to the old masters and copied them.

You say, "taking into account the shinogi which extends into the nakago which is rather typical of Bizen."  Your intent may be lot a little in translation here, for any sword with a shinogi the line would be expected to continue into the nakago, the fact that your blade has a raised shinogi would tend to make it more prominent but I do not think you should rely on this as typical of Bizen.  You are clear that the sword is suriage, do you think the whole of the original nakago is lost?  

 

In your photograph of the mune near the nakago there seems to be a considerable thinning of the blade above the nakago.  This raises the possibility that the blade has seen many polishes and that might effect the shinogi, with that in mind chech this part of the blade to see if the raised shinogi is an original feature.  Unlike Chris I do not think there is anything about the sugata that I would call Kanbun Shinto, and as you are clear that it has saki zori then that, with the midare komi boshi would suggest Koto Muromachi, wouldn't it?  With a nagasa of 62cms as it is you should be able to get an approximate original length which might help.

 

Your last question asks if this is suguha and I would say no, sometimes hamon can be simply described in one word but often you will see that Japanese descriptions say things which are quite a mixture of terms, something like, ".. a gentle notare with some angular gunome, tobiyaki and profuse sunagashi, becoming more regular with nijuba in the monuchi."  I think your sword would need a description like that.

 

Enough of my random ramblings!  Keep up the study and enjoy.

 

All the best.

 

 

 

[SteveM]

Mekugi: 3

 

You are talking about the hole, right (mekugi-ana)? Not the actual peg.

I can only see two holes on the nakago,  is there a third hole? 

I, too, think this is not suguba. The photos show some choji midare...almost tobiyaki. I'm talking about the bit below.

 

Photos can be deceptive, and the polish is very hazy,  but I think it shows something more flamboyant than suguba. 

[jocayol]

Hello

 

The shinogi extends into the nakago Jiri following the general corbure of the blade.

The blade is surage with the point of curvature of the Koshi zori 9 cm from the Munemachi. So it originally had a larger sori of around 20mm.

I think the original Menuki Ana has been lost; but that's just a feeling. Otherwise, I was wrong, there are only two Menuki Ana on the current Nakago.

 

Best regard

Henri joel

[Ken-Hawaii]

Henri, there has obviously been a lot of modifications to your blade, over the years, & it's not really possible to say much about its original shape. Nice detective work, which will help you enjoy more "unmodified + ubu" blades.