BREAK-OPEN GUN Japanese? ANY CLUES?

[Bazza]

Hello all,

 

A friend has come across this gun and wonders what it is.  I would have though European with Japanese silver inlay were it not for the bulbous muzzle very much in the Japanese style.  Ergo, it would seem to be a Japanese made.  It is not his gun and he was only able to get the attached photos for interest, which I present here for the interest of all.

 

BaZZa.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Paper cartridge or metallic?

[Bazza]

John, good question that I didn't think to ask!  I'll follow up.

 

BaZZa.

[Bugyotsuji]

The butt is very Japanese throughout. The bulbous muzzle looks unnatural, imitative. A clever conversion for birds and small game for an ex-Japanese Daimyo or a wealthy Western gentleman. Shotgun(?)

Is there a rim/pin fire or center fire mechanism, and what bore/caliber is it, I wonder?

[ChrisW]

A very interesting transitional piece. I wonder what its story is? We may never know it seems.

[Viper6924]

Amongst the huge collection at the Stibbert Museum in Florence, there is a matchlock that opens up just like a modern shotgun. I’ve only handled it for a few minutes, but if my memory doesn’t fail me, the gun was pretty much a standard-looking matchlock except for how it opened up. Was it a later modification or just a one-off? No idea. I just know that it’s the only one I’ve seen with such a feature.

 

Jan

[Brian]

It's clearly styled after one of the poacher-style Belgian .410 shotguns, and I expect the caliber will be similar.
Maybe a Japanese gunsmith was ordered to copy one.

[Bazza]

Thank you all for your comments.  I have sent a text to my friend who has seen the gun.  He reports he is at a birthday party and will find out more in a day or so.  I've pointed him to this thread so do please put any more questions here.

My good friend is neither a sword man nor a matchlock gun man, but that hasn't stopped him from acquiring a FUJUSHIMA TOMOSHIGE katana and a bajou zutsu.  I presented the latter here on September 18, 2018:
https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26639-a-bajou-zutsu-in-oz-information-assistance-appreciated/

 

BaZZa.

 

[Anthony de Vos]

Hi!

 

Jan, didn’t the Stibbert example have 3 barrels inside a larger one?

 

Anthony

[Peter Bleed]

It is WONDERFUL!  that is what it is!

Break action modernizations are rare - but out there. I am currently working up description of a couple of Filipino break action cannons.

Peter

[Bazza]

Some further information on this gun.  It is centrefire and the calibre/cartridge might be 11.15 x 36R WERNDL.  A thought is that the gun has an Austrian connection, which would support the Werndl cartridge information.  That cartridge is the commercial version of the military 11.15 Werndl calibre.  See https://www.cartridgecollector.net/1115-x-36r-werndl for a photo of this metallic cartridge.  Brian commented "It's clearly styled after one of the poacher-style Belgian .410 shotguns, and I expect the caliber will be similar".  On a cost basis the cartridge is more likely to be paper than metallic???

 

BaZZa.

[Bugyotsuji]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:01 AM, Anthony de Vos said:

Hi!

 

Jan, didn’t the Stibbert example have 3 barrels inside a larger one?

 

Anthony