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Type 95 NCO sword date help?


nchistory
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Hi,

a recent pickup is this type 95 NCO sword serial # 59709 and appears to be by Maker’s mark = Kobe Shoten, Arsenal Inspection Mark,  Tokyo Arsenal Mark.  I've been told this was probably manufacture 1940-ish, are there specific dates for this serial number?  I've been told the screw is a replacement by another collector, does anyone know where a original replacement can be found?  Also scabbard seems to have a primer gray, then green on top?  I'll try to post better photos.  I appreciate any help.  Chris Carroll  Semper Fi.

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Welcome Chris! I may have been wrong about that screw, after seeing the nut-side.  The black color just does not look right to me. But, the Aussie’s will be waking up in a few hours and @Shamsy and @Stegel should be able to clear that up for you.  There are a couple of other guys that collect Type 95s that may have a better idea, too.

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1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Welcome Chris! I may have been wrong about that screw, after seeing the nut-side.  The black color just does not look right to me. But, the Aussie’s will be waking up in a few hours and @Shamsy and @Stegel should be able to clear that up for you.  There are a couple of other guys that collect Type 95s that may have a better idea, too.

Thanks Bruce, I appreciate your help much.  

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Nice sword.

i agree with the 1940 , however I would  say it’s the fiscal year 1940 which includes he first quarter of 1941.

i would be confident in saying Feb/Mar 1941 as the serial number is right at the end of the years production.

 

The screw does appear to be a bit odd, so I’ll check with other swords in the same range from the same sub-contractor

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2 hours ago, Stegel said:

Nice sword.

i agree with the 1940 , however I would  say it’s the fiscal year 1940 which includes he first quarter of 1941.

i would be confident in saying Feb/Mar 1941 as the serial number is right at the end of the years production.

 

The screw does appear to be a bit odd, so I’ll check with other swords in the same range from the same sub-contractor

Thank you kindly for checking for me Stegel.

Chris

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The black screws and nuts appear later on some of the iron tsuba swords and are not at all uncommon. The black screws do not belong on the brass tsuba swords and any examples that may be found in records (if there are any) are safe to assume as replacement. Your example here has a screw that is from one of these later swords.

 

Edit: Adding a pic of one of the later swords. Just a thought, I think these black screws are made from steel or iron as opposed to brass, which is why they are painted. Maybe it was a late war issue with material shortages that necessitated a change in material. Not all iron tsuba swords have black screws, but it certainly looks as if all the side latch models and those models that come after do.

 

 

108400.jpg

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25 minutes ago, Shamsy said:

The black screws and nuts appear later on some of the iron tsuba swords and are not at all uncommon. The black screws do not belong on the brass tsuba swords and any examples that may be found in records (if there are any) are safe to assume as replacement. Your example here has a screw that is from one of these later swords.

Thank you Shamey, so should I look for the period manufactured screw, or assume its a period replacement?  Are there original screws available to purchase?  Thanks again for your help.

Chris

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It looks like an original screw. When it was added to the sword is impossible to know unless Stegel pulls one of his miracles with records of sword sales and could find something for that swords history.

 

Because its an original screw,  it's not really that bad so probably doesn't need replacing unless you want to. Original screws (or most small fittings) are hard to find and expensive though. Basically because a sword needs to be scrapped to make a replacement available. They pop up rarely for sale if you are prepared to pay for them.

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55 minutes ago, Shamsy said:

It looks like an original screw. When it was added to the sword is impossible to know unless Stegel pulls one of his miracles with records of sword sales and could find something for that swords history.

 

Because its an original screw,  it's not really that bad so probably doesn't need replacing unless you want to. Original screws (or most small fittings) are hard to find and expensive though. Basically because a sword needs to be scrapped to make a replacement available. They pop up rarely for sale if you are prepared to pay for them.

Thank you again for a response.  I'd rather leave as is, maybe there is a story out there.  I do appreciate everyone's help.  I hope Stengel may find something, I'm astonished by you guys knowledge.

 

Chris

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Chris,

I'm sorry, i'm afraid that i have misled you earlier with the date i gave, I thought i could trust my memory but as i'm geting a bit long in the tooth, i should keep my mouth closed and check first!

I've had a chance to check the date range and can say it was made in fiscal year of 1941, not 1940.  About Mid 1941 to be more accurate.

 

Checking my records has shown nothing from this contractor in this range, so your's is the first for me. Iijima had a production run before, and after yours.

 

Normally you find the black screws come along with the black collars (Fuchi), and brass screws with the copper/brown fuchi's on which the Arsenal stampings are visible ( this is true for both brass and steel tsuba's/guards)

All of the Iijima swords at that range, have the Brass screw fitted, but as the Rinji Specs (plain steel black tsuba/guards and fuchi/collars) have been made a long time prior to yours, it isn't unreasonable to think that perhaps it was assembled this way, especially if they were running short on parts.

It is also reasonable to assume that this may have been a repair, possibly out in the field of combat, as the brass screws are known to have a tendency to shear and break easily. (especially the early ones)

 

Having said this, i do find it odd that you have a black steel screw with a rather large diameter(most unusual), larger than any i have observed and a brass nut holding it in place. This is a first for me that i can think of.

I'll keep looking to see if i come across any others like this.

 

For now, i wouldn't worry too much as overall, it is a very nice sword, and i really like the darker 'jungle' green coloured scabbard, it isn't a very common one to come across as most are the usual drab olive brown.

 

 

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I was auto logged off....

this part is missing:

Read it as the third last paragraph in my reply please.

 

 

Quote

That's the two best case scenario's, ......now the last is the obvious Post War repair. Obviously not done by 'Bubba' , -but someone more skilled and knowledgable.

 

Having said this, i do find it odd that you have a black steel screw with a rather large diameter(most unusual), larger than any i have observed and a brass nut holding it in place. This is a first for me that i can think of, and makes me lean towards the Post war repair for now (mainly because of the screw diameter).  I'll keep looking to see if i come across any others like this.

 

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2 hours ago, Stegel said:

I was auto logged off....

this part is missing:

Read it as the third last paragraph in my reply please.

Stegal,

Thank you so much again for your response.  Who is the contractor for my sword?  

Looking at other post I guessed, but don't really know.  So can you confirm the maker, the inspector, and arsenal made?  So possibly Fall of 1941 manufacture?

Sorry so many questions, absolutely my knowledge is less than a novice, yet I want to know all I can.  Thank you.  

 

 

 

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First fuchi stamp is the subcontractor originally called Ichi. We have had a few discussions whether it was a representation of Tokyo 1st (being the Japanese kanji for the number 1) or whether the stamp of Kobe subcontractor changed later in production. The reason being that the two stamps are very similar and serial numbers don't appear to overlap. Easiest to call it an Ichi stamp I think.

Tokyo first arsenal stamp on blade.

Same stamp on the fuchi (middle stamp).

Last fuchi stamp is the Kokura 'Cannon ball' stamp (they administered sword production).

 

I'm sure Thomas can provide more in-depth information regarding the subcontractor debate if you want it. I don't think we have a 100% certain answer though.

 

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3 hours ago, Shamsy said:

First fuchi stamp is the subcontractor originally called Ichi. We have had a few discussions whether it was a representation of Tokyo 1st (being the Japanese kanji for the number 1) or whether the stamp of Kobe subcontractor changed later in production. The reason being that the two stamps are very similar and serial numbers don't appear to overlap. Easiest to call it an Ichi stamp I think.

Tokyo first arsenal stamp on blade.

Same stamp on the fuchi (middle stamp).

Last fuchi stamp is the Kokura 'Cannon ball' stamp (they administered sword production).

 

I'm sure Thomas can provide more in-depth information regarding the subcontractor debate if you want it. I don't think we have a 100% certain answer though.

You're fantastic, thanks for breaking it down for me..

 

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On 3/10/2021 at 3:05 AM, nchistory said:

Sorry so many questions, absolutely my knowledge is less than a novice, yet I want to know all I can.

 

Here is a good online source to get started.  It will answer most of the basic questions.

IJA Type 95 NCO Sword Info

 

These Type 95s are frequently referred to on this forum by patterns.  Stegel has posted an info-graphic on this and it can be found at the link below.

Questions about "late war", NCO swords, Post #37

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On 3/11/2021 at 7:13 PM, Kiipu said:

 

Here is a good online source to get started.  It will answer most of the basic questions.

IJA Type 95 NCO Sword Info

 

These Type 95s are frequently referred to on this forum by patterns.  Stegel has posted an info-graphic on this and it can be found at the link below.

Questions about "late war", NCO swords, Post #37

Thank you so much.

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