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Real or fake Hamano Tsuba


Artur DrogaMiecza

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Hello, I would like to ask experienced colleagues for a general opinion on this tsuba. It is known that the photos do not reflect the full feeling.
Could this be an authentic Hamano Tsuba? I received several negative votes. The argument: "You didn't pay 10K for this". Anyway, I like it.

Please click the photo for more HD pictures. 

 

Hamano

 

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Gimei. If meant to be Hamano Masayuki (Shozui), then f'ugly gimei.

 

The Masayuki (aka. Shozui) is so bad that it hurts my eyes. Without even hitting the books, I can see multiple errors in the stroke order. It is as if I signed my latest painting "Van Gogh" with a brush using my left foot.   [Apologies to those who prefer to paint with their left foot. I prefer my right foot.]

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4 hours ago, Curran said:

Gimei. If meant to be Hamano Masayuki (Shozui), then f'ugly gimei.

 

The Masayuki (aka. Shozui) is so bad that it hurts my eyes. Without even hitting the books, I can see multiple errors in the stroke order. It is as if I signed my latest painting "Van Gogh" with a brush using my left foot.   [Apologies to those who prefer to paint with their left foot. I prefer my right foot.]

Thank you for your opinion on such an expert level. 

I didn't imagine it was a forum for painters. No offense. ;) We're having fun...

 

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Dear Artur,

 

As you may know, Haynes says the following about Shozui (Hamano Masayuki): "The majority of the signed examples seen today are forgeries, particularly the tsuba".  While I don't agree with the often repeated line that most swords or tosogu are gemei, I'm afraid that I have to agree with Curran here.  I looked at many of his published mei and they do not match your tsuba.  Perhaps more importantly, the style of the artwork and the quality of the katakiribori do not match his work either (remember, he was considered the next greatest after the Nara Sansaku... the three greatest masters of that time).  If you look carefully, you will see many errors and hesitation in the katakiribori carving.  Having said that it is still a genuine tsuba that I'd be happy to own.

 

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26 minutes ago, Tanto54 said:

Dear Artur,

 

As you may know, Haynes says the following about Shozui (Hamano Masayuki): "The majority of the signed examples seen today are forgeries, particularly the tsuba".  While I don't agree with the often repeated line that most swords or tosogu are gemei, I'm afraid that I have to agree with Curran here.  I looked at many of his published mei and they do not match your tsuba.  Perhaps more importantly, the style of the artwork and the quality of the katakiribori do not match his work either (remember, he was considered the next greatest after the Nara Sansaku... the three greatest masters of that time).  If you look carefully, you will see many errors and hesitation in the katakiribori carving.  Having said that it is still a genuine tsuba that I'd be happy to own.

 

 

I am very beginner. The longer I am interested, the less I know. I spend most of my time learning koshirae techniques, so forgive my immaturity in the topic of tsuba. Thanks a lot for Your opinion.

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Artur,
You have to read Curran's reply with a mischievous smile on your face. That is how it is intended. And he is talking about the mei itself, not the tsuba. Consider it a friendly wink that there is zero chance this is shoshin. Still a nice tsuba. Just not a Shozui.
 

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2 hours ago, Brian said:

Artur,
You have to read Curran's reply with a mischievous smile on your face. That is how it is intended. And he is talking about the mei itself, not the tsuba. Consider it a friendly wink that there is zero chance this is shoshin. Still a nice tsuba. Just not a Shozui.
 

Of course, I understand and I did not want to offend anyone, I took it seriously but also fun at the same time. I keep my distance from comments and I didn't expect tsuba to be ok. I also wanted to understand a bit why someone broke a pretty nice tsuba, as Vajo noticed.

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To add a little art technical info here...

 

The katakiri is gilded. Were the gilding done in the classical way with mercury, fire gilding or kin-keshi, it'd have a sightly frosted look. Quite distinctive in fact. This, on the other hand, has been done by means of electroplating. This technology was only introduced to Japan, from Germany I believe, in the very late 19th century.

 

It's application, like this, to gild engraved lines is called chinkin-bori. It became relatively common in the Meiji period.

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I didn't mean it too harsh. I didn't know you were a beginner.

I was also coming off about 15 hours of work, and a bit punchdrunk rude after a long day.

 

-Shozui- was a very popular target choice for +added+ signatures.

He was a big name. So big that he is one of about a dozen tosogu artists where I have literally memorized examples of the "authentic" signatures. I've owned at least two NBTHK papered works by him and studied somewhere between 100 to 200 works by him during the last 2 decades.

 

Due to the economic forces at work in the late 1800s, there are a lot of gimei of certain artists. I've owned gimei tsuba where the workmanship was better than the artist whose signature was added. I've never removed a signature, but seriously thought about it.

    Gimei happen....a lot.   I once helped a museum catalog their 1920s-1930s collection of tsuba. There were about 120 signed works, of which about 70 ended up being gimei.

 

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5 hours ago, Curran said:

I didn't mean it too harsh. I didn't know you were a beginner.

I was also coming off about 15 hours of work, and a bit punchdrunk rude after a long day.

 

-Shozui- was a very popular target choice for +added+ signatures.

He was a big name. So big that he is one of about a dozen tosogu artists where I have literally memorized examples of the "authentic" signatures. I've owned at least two NBTHK papered works by him and studied somewhere between 100 to 200 works by him during the last 2 decades.

 

Due to the economic forces at work in the late 1800s, there are a lot of gimei of certain artists. I've owned gimei tsuba where the workmanship was better than the artist whose signature was added. I've never removed a signature, but seriously thought about it.

    Gimei happen....a lot.   I once helped a museum catalog their 1920s-1930s collection of tsuba. There were about 120 signed works, of which about 70 ended up being gimei.

 

 

Thank You.

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