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Were children's swords ever made?


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Title is self-explanatory, but here's the short story of why I ask:

I'm pretty new to collecting swords, and I bought a sad sack of a wakizashi very cheap for the metal fittings. The blade was totally rusted - apparently into place - and the koshirae was wrecked and I think at once time covered in mold. But the fuchi and menuki looked like they might be nice.

So I disassembled it, which left me with the fittings (I'm happy with them) and the rusty blade.

An abundance of caution later and I decided to either remove the rust or fix it in place, on the off chance it's 1) not as bad as it looks somehow or it's 2) something worth preserving even though it IS as bad as it looks.

A search on the forum reveals a way forward.

SO, I've spent a good 15+ hours staring  intently at this thing's minor details while gently scraping it with an old Canadian penny. And I'm noticing a lot of things that make me think that this was used and VERY abused by a pretty young child, and also that it was *meant to be*.

It's messing with me. I've read a few books but don't remember any "Katanas for Kids" chapters, so I'm hoping to get help from the experienced people here:

Were swords ever made for children?

 

- Carmen G

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Yes, look up something called a "Boy's Day Sword"

 

What you'll end up with is a wakizashi-sized blade with katana proportions. Very thin, usually in cheap ornamental koshirae.

 

Posting pictures of everything, including the bare blade will affirm or refute suspicions of origin.

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Excellent! Thank you guys for the info!

I looked up some pictures of Boys Day swords and this may be a mystery solved. I'll post some pictures when I get home tonight and see if we can confirm it. 

 

14 hours ago, ChrisW said:

What you'll end up with is a wakizashi-sized blade with katana proportions. Very thin, usually in cheap ornamental koshirae.

 This seems accurate. It does seem to be proportioned like a small katana, although it doesn't appear to have kissaki geometry. Whether it started like that or has been lost over time I can't tell (hopefully the pictures will help).

 

 

12 hours ago, Ken-Hawaii said:

 

It's not only kids who abuse swords,

Very true, but this seemed next-level which is why my mind went to kids. The mune and cutting edge each have a few dozen impact-chips out of them, the point is intact but literally bent over, and the tang was stuck in the tsuba because at some point it impacted something so hard head-on it was jolted back into the uncarved, solid wood and lodged into place.

 

I'll try and get all the damage in the pictures as well, it's impressive in its own way.

 

- Carmen G

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46 minutes ago, Surfson said:

They tend to have very slender blades and are different in shape from, say, a wakizashi.

It's visibly delicate, and I hope I get the terms right here - the kasane (thickness?) and motohaba (height?) both seem finer than on a "normal" waki. I just assumed at the time that it was several steps beyond tired and that was why it had been left to rust, but the shinogi seems to be in the right place and the mune looks unaltered so I don't think material was removed. I think it was made like that.

 

I can't speak to the shape. It's been through a lot and looks straighter than I would expect (and straighter than its saya) but I think that may be the result of a particularly hard impact? I'll be uploading pictures later which will hopefully help.

 

- Carmen G 

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Quick comparison between the baby waki and a (regular) waki I have with a same-length cutting edge. Sorry if the photos are bad, I'll retake/take more if needed. + / - added for slightly larger or smaller measurements than the number given.

 

Motokasane -

Baby: 2/16in   Reg: 3/16in+

 

Sakikasane -

Baby: 2/16in-  Reg: 2/16in

 

Motohaba -

Baby: 14/16in  Reg: 15.5/16in

 

Nakago -

Baby: 3in           Reg: 5in

 

Last picture shows shinogi placement.

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Some pictures of the epic-in-its-own-way damage this thing has: a few of the mune, the tip, the cutting edge, and one where it looks like it was hit against a tree or something? hard enough to bend the whole midsection out of shape. Insane that it's still in one piece (and kinda sharp!)

 

- Carmen G 

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11 hours ago, hobnails said:

Hi Carmen it certainly looks like its been well abused, here is a couple of pic's of one i  own

Oh, that's beautiful! Your swords' child must have been much better behaved.

 

9 hours ago, ChrisW said:

I don't think it can be saved but it is interesting as an exemplar piece.

Sounds like it's a good piece for experimentation then. I think I saw Brian talk about using an evaporust dip to get rid of rust in another post; that seems like a good starting point. I'll re-read it and see if it's suitable to try, and give updates if anyone wants them about how it affects the blade.

 

- Carmen G

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Quote

But some of the toys are very ingenious and fine. For about a dollar and a half, for instance, one can buy an exact working model of the Murata rifle used by the Japanese Army. And some of the swords, usually sold in pairs (katana and chiisai-katana), in imitation of those carried by the samurai, are really beautiful and costly.

Sladen, Douglas. The Japs at Home. 5th edition. London: Ward, Lock & Bowden, Limited, 1895. Page 255.

 

"Miniature Japanese Army Parade Sword"

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/miniature-Japanese-army-parade-sword-300106/

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6 hours ago, Chasing said:

.....Sounds like it's a good piece for experimentation then. I think I saw Brian talk about using an evaporust dip to get rid of rust in another post; that seems like a good starting point. I'll re-read it and see if it's suitable to try.....

 

- Carmen G

Carmen,

we generally do not recommend to experiment with Japanese blades. Although your blade indeed could be a cheaper version of a 'boys sword' (not children's sword!), especially when looking at the NAKAGO and the obviously not hardened edge, we do not know exactly what you have unless an expert has seen it in hand. 

The damages are in my opinion not caused by a Japanese boy. In the past these were 'disguised' as little SAMURAI and given a sword on the occasion of the former 'Boy's Day', (today KODOMO no HI = Children's day), but it was never meant for playing around with it! This custom was originally performed by wealthy SAMURAI families, so we can be sure that they respected swords.

In my experience, damages like this were always caused by uneducated Westerners (kids or adults).

Referring to your first post: There is no plural form of KATANA. 

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49 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

we generally do not recommend to exrperiment with Japanese blades.

Experiment is probably the wrong word; it sounds like Brian already did the experimentation. I'd just be following  the process he laid out here for a similarly rusty sword:

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1 hour ago, ROKUJURO said:

when looking at the NAKAGO and the obviously not hardened edge, we do not know exactly what you have unless an expert has seen it in hand

The seeming lack of differential hardening is actually one of the things that made me think it had been made for a child - I would  certainly ask a smith to skip the 'make it extra-deadly' steps myself!

 

If that's unexpected though, I live in Rochester, NY. I know there's a Rochester Sword Study Group here but they don't have public meetings; if you know of anyone nearby or know that group is credible I'd gladly contact them and meet up to get an in-person assessment.

 

You also mentioned Boy's Day swords were made for samurai families in particular, but as they haven't existed in a while, I'm adding a few pictures of the fittings that came off the koshirae in case they help narrow down when the blade was last mounted. It seemed custom-made; I don't think it was cannibalized from another blade.

 

Tsuba seems to be solid copper, menuki either copper or a mix of copper and something else, the rest I'm not sure about.

 

- Carmen G

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Carmen,

SAMURAI families are still existing today, but I do not know if they carry this custom on to the present day. Probably not with real handmade swords!

The TOSOGU which accompanied the blade look very simple to say the least, but that is only my personal impression from the photos. All in all, the whole item might have been more impressive when it was newly made and presented to a proud little boy, and I can imagine that this was in the 19th century.

Concerning the sword study group: Even if they don't have public meetings, I am quite confident that they would welcome you to show your blade.

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I had a boys day sword many years ago and it was a miniature wakizashi.

My friend had a miniature katana.

The katana had rather low quality fittings and a very slim blade.

The wakizashi was miniature in every respect.fuchigashira,kozuka, kogatana tsuka,menuki and saya all approx half size and done as well as any sword.

The blade was fully tempered and flawless. When laid next to a Shinto wakizashi is was a perfect reduction.

The good ones are very worth collecting.

I loved mine.

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