New member with an old katana

[16k]

Steve,

 

I really don’t know how many people have asked to buy it. But since in another thread we’re speaking about selling and honesty, I wouldn’t accept offers now if I were you. As Has been said, it may just be too far gone and a piece of junk. I think it’s worth much better than that if salvaged. The shape is really good but yes, the pittings and active rust are worrisome. If you don’t have the money for a full polish, have at least a window opened. Then better knowledgeable people will tell you if it’s worth it or not. Even opening a window will cost a little money, but that is a bet that may pay off in the end. If it doesn’t, well, you’ll have to suck it up, but at least you’ll know.

 

... and if it’s worth it and you don’t have the money for a full polish, at least preserve it. Oil it regularly to stop the rust and deterioration from spreading more. And save little by little for that polish. Never mind if it takes years, anyway this sword has been waiting untended until now. A few more years won’t change that much.

[Babu]

1 hour ago, Steve D said:

Looks like this sword is causing some discussion 🙂

I'm completely new to swords and am learning new words and descriptions for things I didn't even know existed,  it's great! 

My initial reason for posting was to get some info on the sword as I didn't have a clue where to start. 

The more I'm learning the more I want to know about this sword.

 

There's nothing more to tell in its current condition Steve. All anyone can see is sugata and that's not enough to tell you anything. You couldn't even date it from a rusty blade sugata. You need to see the hada, hamon, Nakago, yasureme, boshi etc all of which is obscured on your sword. 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with it. 

All the best Adam 

[Tom Darling]

Steve,  you have a catch 22 situation. Having a window open on the blade, whether one side or both,  doesn't tell you everything.  This could be a serious mistake,either way.  If it turns out looking good, doesn't guarantee it has no flaws. If it turns out terrible,  you'd wouldn't be able to get a fair offer, as , less buyers would show any interest. Pitching it the way it is,  would guarantee a better outcome.  Good luck. Peace.

 

Tom D.

 

[Steve D]

When I started this thread I had no idea what I have or that it might actually have some value but learning more about it makes me want to know more, so I'm kind of stuck with a sword that needs restoration or at least having a window opened to find out any more info on it.

How much would it cost, in the UK, to have a window opened and where could it be done?

I was discussing the sword with my mum last night and she wondered if I might be able to do anything with it as I'm a skilled engineer by trade so have a good eye for detail and good with my hands.

Is it a complete no-no to attempt to at least remove the worst of the rust if great care is taken? 

[ChrisW]

Short of using gentle soap and water and antler to gently remove red rust? Yes, it is a complete no-no.

 

Absolutely do not use any chemicals, abrasives, stones, or any means of removing metal. This sword (or any genuine nihonto) is best left to the care of professionals. If they cannot do it, no one can (or should!). It is better to gently oil the sword with good quality choji oil and let it wait for a restoration than undertake anything yourself. You could end up having a real treasure on your hands, and if the integrity of the metal or the hamon is damaged, then what you have is a paperweight. My suggestion is to ask experts here on techniques for dealing with the active rust, then oil it and save up for a window-opening appraisal by a professional. Ed, Darcy, or any number of experienced members here can point you towards a legitimate polisher and can even handle getting the work done for you if you ask (as in Darcy's case).

 

If the polisher deems it salvageable and IF the work goes through without a hitch, you could have a sword worthy of going to Shinsa (think of it like an identification board) that could get make sure this blade is noted on the records. Its a long road and will take years, but in the end, you might end up with something that would be worthy of passing onto generations of descendants. Its a lot of "if's" but as other forum members have indicated, there might be something special here as indicated by the quality of some of the fittings.

 

So as any other member will tell you, PLEASE do not attempt any 'restoration' work yourself. We cannot tell you how many times we've been told, seen, or saw the product of homespun work; it never ends well for the blade. A proper togishi (polisher of Nihonto) takes at least a decade of experience or more before they set up their own practice. There's a lot of mental intricacies, techniques, and fine-motor tunings they have that us non-togishi don't have.

 

 

If that doesn't interest you,  you'll easily be able to find a member here that would undertake that risk. However, I think you've caught the nihonto bug! It can be a very rewarding experience if you're patient and persevere.

[Steve D]

Thanks Chris.

All good points and taken on board 🙂

 

I think I'll start another post in the more appropriate section to try and get some hints & tips on maintaining the blade as some of the guys you mention might not see this. 

I've definitely got an itch to scratch, finding out more about this sword and will look into it a lot more 👍

[Greg F]

Hi Steve, 

I would love to see you save to have a window and if the togi says its worth it a polish and not give in the offers to sell as im sure you will always wonder and probably regret not hanging on to it and restoring it over time. It would be a great project to undertake inspite of the financial efforts to save.

Please listen to Chris and do nothing more that oil the blade, you wuld definitely damage or likely ruin it even if you are an absolutely  amazing engineer. Its just something that can only be done by traditionally trained togishi. 

Enjoy the Nihonto road ahead.

 

Greg

[Ken-Hawaii]

I'm far more interested in your French saber! I've been a fencer for even longer than I've been studying Nihonto.

[Steve D]

4 minutes ago, Ken-Hawaii said:

I'm far more interested in your French saber! I've been a fencer for even longer than I've been studying Nihonto.

It's an 1810 Du Klingenthal Heavy Cavalry sword, unfortunately, also stored in the garage but not as bad as the katana. It's very nice and in need of restoration too. 

[sabiji]

Brian and Jean-Pierre are right about the Sugata. I also find the shape remarkable. A very classic shape. Note that the blade in the Monouchi area is almost straight and the Sori's center of gravity is concentrated in the lowest area of the blade.
@Babu, a really good shape is usually also an indicator of a (very) good basic quality of the blade, so in this case I would be less worried about hidden defects.
The question is rather, how will the loss of material from a restoration affect the already old blade? As some have already written, a Madoake and a knowledgeable eye would be highly recommended. Any loss of material through improper "conservation attempts" would be fatal in any case.

[Babu]

There is another thread discussing the same points being raised here. This thread should now be closed MODS.

Pipe dreams apart, Tom is bang on.

The window will only confirm the portion of blade exposed.

Everything else is fairytale.

The kissaki will be fundamentally changed by the work. If the hamon is a fine suguba your probably off the blade.

 

STEVE I'm also an engineer so take it from me and leave the blade well alone. 

The pitting is your immediate enemy and you cannot remove that without removing the steel.

Halt further corrosion with light oil. 

Then leave it alone.

TOM makes some very valid points it's curiosity value is lost with a window.

You then have a rusty nail.

I don't believe that you will ever part with the money required to resolve this.

If you don't get the windows done in the UK, then you certainly won't in Japan.

Good luck mate don't let the dreamers carry you away. At present it is exactly what you see a badly corroded bit of metal.

Adam