Tsuda Sukehiro ( Echizen Kami Sukehiro ) work

[Brano]

I would like to take a look at the textbook work of Tsuda Sukehiro 2nd - who are willing to share your blades. I own only his early work, mei Echizen Kami Sukehiro (Kanbun 6). Unconventional is the construction of the blade - nagamaki style katana.

More HiRes photos can be viewed at

https://www.zonerama.com/Nihonto/887667

 

[16k]

Congrats! I only have one by Soboro Sukehiro. I love it but yours is a work of art.

[Surfson]

Hi Brano.  Here are some photos of mine.  Yours has Toran Ba, so it is pretty late, but since it has the kakumei (square signature), it is probably the late part of his early period of work.  Mine is probably earlier than yours a little, but it typical of the early work I think.  (I don't claim an special expertise or study of Sukehiro - buying the taikan is not the same as either reading it or studying it!).  Cheers, Bob

[Brano]

Hi Brano.  Here are some photos of mine.  Yours has Toran Ba, so it is pretty late, but since it has the kakumei (square signature), it is probably the late part of his early period of work.  Mine is probably earlier than yours a little, but it typical of the early work I think.  (I don't claim an special expertise or study of Sukehiro - buying the taikan is not the same as either reading it or studying it!).  Cheers, Bob

Nice blade Robert.

Very well visible hada. Photos have Kirill handwriting, or am I wrong?

[Ganko]

Beautiful sword, very hanayaka. The kind of sword that never looks the same every time you view it.

[DanielLee]

Looks like a long blade, unusual construction as you mentioned. Was the machi moved up slightly?

[Ken-Hawaii]

A very nice blade, Brano. I would have thought earlier than Shinto.

[Brano]

Two mekugi ana may be the result of the blade being machiokuri.

The second alternative is a new mounting

Honestly, I can't judge, I'm just beginning learning about nihonto

I don't know if the nakago detail of the upper mekugi ana will help

[Surfson]

Brano, If you are asking whether Kirill took those photos, the answer is yes.  He came to visit and we spent a couple days shooting most of my collection.  

[DanielLee]

 

Two mekugi ana may be the result of the blade being machiokuri.

The second alternative is a new mounting

Honestly, I can't judge, I'm just beginning learning about nihonto

I don't know if the nakago detail of the upper mekugi ana will help

 

Appears to be slightly machi okuri since the top portion of the nakago does not have yasurime. Here are some ubu examples which you can compare with:

 

https://www.seiyudo.com/ka-070216.htm

https://www.seiyudo.com/wa-010802.htm

 

the 2nd link is one with the Tsuda signature.

[Brano]

Appears to be slightly machi okuri since the top portion of the nakago does not have yasurime. Here are some ubu examples which you can compare with:

 

https://www.seiyudo.com/ka-070216.htm

https://www.seiyudo.com/wa-010802.htm

 

the 2nd link is one with the Tsuda signature.

Thank you Daniel

Useful information for me in the future

[Tom Darling]

Could it not be possible, that the blade is saiha, noted, moved up machi?

 

 

Tom D.

[Brano]

Could it not be possible, that the blade is saiha, noted, moved up machi?

 

 

Tom D.

Wouldn't there be an entry in the Shinsa papers about it?

Probably the Shinto blade would not even pass TH, although my knowledge is limited

[Ray Singer]

No it's not possible that this sword is saiha. I don't see anything here that would justify speculating that the Sukehiro has been retempered.

[Tom Darling]

Can anybody (vouch)  tell me that the shinsa would not issue a paper on a saiha sword?  I personally, believe it has been done. As far as the Sukehiro not being saiha, is all right with me, no offense. But, it is a good question it brought out. Peace.

[Ray Singer]

The NBTHK will not issue paper is for an ordinary Shinto katana that is saiha. However for a sword of extraordinary artistic and historical importance and then it is possible. What immediately comes to mind is the Sadamune with saiha by shodai Yasutsugu.

[Tom Darling]

Ray,

 

You are 100% correct. Thank you.  There are a lot of blades that are saiha with no papers.

 

Tom D.

[DanielLee]

Papered saiha blades will also have the kanji for saiha (再刃) written on the certification. If i'm not wrong , it written near the attribution so that its clear to anyone who views the paper.

[Brano]

I will ask experienced collectors for an explanation / opinion

We take it for the fact that the blade is machi okuri

At the same time, I assume that hi is original and originated at the same time as the blade (due to the shape of the blade)

If machi okuri were in the range of distances of two mekugi ana (logical for me) - approx. 1.5 cm - the hi position in the original state would be too far from the habaki

I enclose a photo of the current state

[16k]

Unless the hi was made after?

[Jacques D.]

I would say this nakago is ubu and the second mekugi ana perced for a tachi mount.

[Brano]

I would say this nakago is ubu and the second mekugi ana perced for a tachi mount.

Yes, Jaques, that's one of possibility. But Daniel's remark (post 10) is justified - yasurime is missing at the top portion of the nakago

[DanielLee]

Also the hamon doesn't end at the ha like the other 2 examples i posted.

 

Perhaps need to find more examples like juyo blades (has to be ubu to pass juyo) by this smith and compare

[Brano]

I agree with Daniel.

Originally, the ha probably started at the intersection of the yellow and red lines

My blade has a special refraction which is not found on the blades in Daniel's references (marked by a red circle).

And this is, in my opinion, the original place of hamachi before machi okuri

[Jacques D.]

Also the hamon doesn't end at the ha like the other 2 examples i posted.

 

Perhaps need to find more examples like juyo blades (has to be ubu to pass juyo) by this smith and compare

 

Nidai Sukehiro was not constant with the start of his hamon.... 

[DoTanuki yokai]

I would say the blade is not retempered but a little machiokuri. 

I think the hamon runs too long into the tang also mune machi and ha machi are not parallely in my eyes. ?

[Jacques D.]

I would say the blade is not retempered but a little machiokuri. 

I think the hamon runs too long into the tang also mune machi and ha machi are not parallely in my eyes. ?

 

This nakago is ubu Sukehiro started always his mei just under mekugi ana, the higher mekugi ana is the original one the other below was added later. Then, have a look at the start of the hamon. 

[Jacques D.]

     

 

http://sanmei.com/contents/media/H81380_S8886_PUP_E.html

 

 

https://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/f00197.html

 

https://iidakoendo.com/1166/

 

this one is suriage and machiokuri 

 

https://www.e-nihontou.co.jp/products/detail/542

[Surfson]

I didn't notice prices on any of those Jacques.  Any idea what the current price is on a healthy ubu signed and papered Sukehiro?   I have not paid much attention to it, and mine was an ebay find.  Cheers, Bob

[Jacques D.]

I didn't notice prices on any of those Jacques.  Any idea what the current price is on a healthy ubu signed and papered Sukehiro?   I have not paid much attention to it, and mine was an ebay find.  Cheers, Bob

The bijutsu hin is not for sale; référence only  

 

A good idea here 

 

https://www.aoijapan.net/katana-tsuda-echizen-kami-sukehironbthk-31st-juyo-paper/