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Noshu ju Satō Kanehiro saku


goshin81

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I hope this is the right place for this, it was just identified in the translation board. I am uploading some better pictures here. I am looking for any help to get a clearer picture of what this sword is.  I found some info on google books and there are a few Kanehiro's from the Showa era.  On the attached image that lists the smith's I think it's the first one.  Would that make this a traditionally made sword?  The blade is pitted on the top 8 or so inches and theres a dark line that looks like it shows where the laminated layers are. 

 

Another thing that I found interesting is the saya.  It looks to me that it has straw, spirals of silk, and mother of pearl laquered in.  Is that common?

 

On the translation board someone mentioned that the tsuba was iron, I think copper or an alloy due to it's weight and color.  The flower petals are silver.  The  Fushi/Kashira are plain.  I'm not sure what the menuki are, it looks like some sort of tassel.

  

Any information that could be shared would be helpful.  This is my first sword and I don't even know where to begin to really learn about it.

 

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My guess is that there would be no stamp found. I have not seen an undated stamped sword. It's just a little weird that the yasurime seems so prominent to the point of overwhelming the mei. Otherwise,  the mei seems well-chiseled. Besides the condition issue (e.g., pitting), I don't see a red flag.

 

Hoanh

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Please sign all posts with your first name, per Brian's rules, so we know how to address you.

 

Seeing a mei (signature) on a blade means almost nothing, as the majority of swords are gimei, fakes. Looking at the shape of the sword (sugata) is the first thing to look at, but it needs to be a completely bare blade, so please start with that. I agree with Chris that what I can see looks odd.

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Thanks everyone, I am posting a few bare blade photos.  There are no stamps on it but there is a painted(?) black character on the non-mei side of the nakago.  I also tried to get some better photos of the hamon and had to play with the brightness and contrast to make it more visible.  

 

I tried to get a better picture of the shape of the mune above the kissaki, from what I can tell there is no ramp or variation of the mune.  I hope these photos show it a little better.  Is there something else about the shape that seems off? 

Thanks,

Mike

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I believe this is a real Seki blade but I also believe all those scratches provided plenty of opportunities to remove a stamp. We can’t see the Hamon, so no way of telling wether it is oil or water tempered. I concur with the others that the kissaki looks quite odd. Maybe a kissaki that was repaired on the field?

 

Btw, the black paint Mark is just a mounting indication.

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My guess is that there would be no stamp found. I have not seen an undated stamped sword. It's just a little weird that the yasurime seems so prominent to the point of overwhelming the mei. Otherwise,  the mei seems well-chiseled. Besides the condition issue (e.g., pitting), I don't see a red flag.

 

Hoanh

I have an undated stamped sword. With a Showa stamp, so we can roughly date it to 1940, but no other dates.

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I have an undated stamped sword. With a Showa stamp, so we can roughly date it to 1940, but no other dates.

JP,

 

 

Thank you for the valuable info. That's quite interesting!

 

Hoanh

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This is interesting so far.  I'd like to give a little background to it as well.  I bought it in 2014 in Quechee Vermont at a consignment antique mall.  When I asked if I could remove the tsuka they had to call the seller for permission.  I did get a chance to ask a few questions too.  The seller said she bought it in a lot at a small estate sale from an older man that passed away.  She had it in her possession for 5-6 years before I bought it.  She didn't have any information on the man who passed unfortunately.  My hope is that it hadn't passed through to many hands before me.  I've had it in storage as I've moved around and Coronatine has given me some time to research it.

 

How does an oil and water hamon differ?  It's very faint and really can be seen on the lower third.  What about the kissaki looks odd?

 

I'm wondering about the file marks on the tang and what a showa stamp would look like.  How deep is the stamp typically?  The file marks look very uniform in depth and I don't notice any divots where someone would have been filing harder.  I also don't notice any areas where there are unusually textured spots with softer edges from a stamp edge.  I'm definitely ceding to the greater knowledge but a combination of poor picture quality, the difference of seeing it in person, and hope just makes me want to get the most info available.  The opinion that it is a seki made blade is a win in itself I think, my fear was that it was a total fake.

Thanks everyone!

Mike

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Thanks Hoanh, I read through most of it and looked at mine again.  I am now a little suspicious of the area that is upper left of the mei.  The tang is a fairly uniform color and the file marks cross hatch evenly and regularly except for that area.  The color is a little more red and the file marks are go up instead of at an angle.   It's still hard to say if the crosshatched file marks are on top but I would guess if there is a spot filed that would be it, the stamp would have to have been very shallow as well as the surface is pretty even.  

 

After reading that I am under the impression that seki blades were rolled out and are not traditionally made.  Are those blades less valuable and desireable?

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Seki blades came in all kinds, from just cut out to fully traditional. If the blade isn’t traditional, it means that at least one of the proceedings wasn’t traditional. Mostly, cutlery steel and oil quenched. For collectors of nihontō, they have little value. However there are also militaria collectors And they value them too. I, personally, love both as historical objects. Many people here do too.

 

Generally, a water quenched blade will show what are called activities (not always the case though) like spots, lines and others in the Hamon. All of these have special names. An oil quenched blade very seldom shows these and looks more like a line. If there are peaks in the Hamon, at the top, you will often see dull dark spots that are telltale signs of oil quenching.

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