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Some fine fuchi-kashira FS

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Large release from my collection – some fine fuchi-kashira

 

1. Tigers f-k

Craftsmanship in the essence. Look at the details, brilliant nanakoji, inlay work, carvings. Masterpiece grade item.

Signed: Omori Teruhide Kao

Price: $1000

 

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2. Shishi f-k

Nice f-k. Good example of the Yokoya school. Fine motobori techniques realized.

Signed: Soyo Kao

Size:Fuchi: 37.5 x 21 x 12.6 mm

Kashira: 33.6 x 16.2 mm

Price: $300

 

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3. Huang Shigong (Kosekiko) and Zhang Liang (Choryo) f-k

This is something really rare. Motif is quite popular but not so many items out there, especially f-k and this one is a true find. Fuchi is very nice, black shakudo dragon in golden waves, kashira is something special, miniature scene from the famous legend on finest nanakoji, you can see every detail, bridge surface is polished to mirror. A true masterpiece.

Mumei Kyo-Kinko

NTK Kantei-sho

Price: $600

 

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4. Kirimon f-k

Very interesting f-k by the master of minute carvings Hosono Masamori.

Signed: Hosono Sozaemon kore o horu

Sizes:

Fuchi: 3.7 x 1.9 x 0.8 cm

Kashira: 3.3 x 1.7 x 0.6 cm

Price: $400

 

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5. Daruma and mokugyo/hossu (Zen Buddhism drum and brush) f-k

Famous design, nice work.

Signed: Tou (in-mei)

Sizes:

Fuchi: 34 x 17 mm

Kashira: 31.6 x 12.5 mm

Price: $350

 

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I have dealt with Alex before. It was uncomplicated and the items just as described. Nice stuff here with good prices, can only reccommend!

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Hello Alex. 

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask but Are you sure the omori Teruhide is genuine before I consider buying it? 

Thank you 

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Hello Adam,

I don’t care about the signature in this specific case, look at the workmanship. It’s an eternal question whether you like to buy art or signature/attribution/paper, we already discussed it with you. You already know the answer to your question, why asking, for others to be aware? I’m not hiding anything. I have gimei, mumei, hozon, tokuho and juyo candidate pieces in my collection, and I like gimei to be frank because it’s affordable, if the quality is there. Some just can’t afford a big name, mumei and gimei are here for them if the work is pleasing the eye. Even NBTHK in some rare cases if the workmanship deserves protection may put on a paper “there is a signature”.

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Please, inquiry must be kept by PM. Apply the rule of thumb: quality first, mei second...

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Apologies I had PM the same time .seller did reply eventually but after this post.

My reasons are that I think it should be a rule for all (not picking on this seller or any specific seller) to put after a description without papers that the mei is unconfirmed or unreliable if it's not at least passed confirmation on here.

We all are guilty of elaborating on description for added interest but this should be done with caution.

 

This forum is used as a guide for many novices with varying depths of pocket and when a mei is stated as part of a description and not challenged some might think it must be genuine as no one on NMB has challenged the seller.

This is forcing Caveat Emptor.

 

My question is why are we allowing this?

It's a simple requirement. If it's genuine evidence that fact. If you cannot them put ”unconfirmed mei” after it and don't add the history of the potentially Gimei artist as this is misleading.

Most people know if their items shoshin or not.Many when PM'D reply or email a reply ”I don't know I've never checked it” ...It seems a little dishonest as I doubt many would buy an item with signature and not check it's authenticity.

(and again this is NOT directed at anyone and certainly not the OP who would never do such a thing he's a great Guy)

 

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We are dealing with collectible items thus if someone wants to buy an item he has to do his homework.

 

Concerning signatures, as in all Art field, no certificate= no signature. It means that no added value can be brought to the item if not supported by a « valid » certificate.
 

Newbies can PM any member to ask for advice. It has been done numerous time in the past and will surely be done in the future. It is the best way to check the value of an item.

 

It is very easy to check the profile of the seller.

 

I have not seen any serious complaint about NMB sales in 20 years.


In fact, NMB is probably the safest and best place to strike bargain.

 

And as you said it Adam : « I doubt many would buy an item with signature and not check it's authenticity. » 
 

 

 

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Just to add, has anyone seen a genuine signed Omori Teruhide F/K for 1000$ ?

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On 8/7/2020 at 11:50 PM, Jean said:

Just to add, has anyone seen a genuine signed Omori Teruhide F/K for 1000$ ?

 

Or Yokoya Soyo for $200 :) 

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But gentleman you are knowledgable whilst others may not be. 

It is not exactly a big ask is it? 

Prove it or remove it. 

How about "attributed to" and "unconfirmed" 

Why not be a little more transparent to not only help newer collectors with less experience, but also to help build trust. 

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Babu, it's because you literally never can be sure about a signature. Even experts can't. There are a lot of artworks out there which had the best certificates for years and one day a new technology arises which proves all the certificates as wrong. That's very common in the world of paintings etc. A lot of Rubens, Rembrandts, Caravaggio etc. have been proved as copies or fakes in the last 20 years because new technologies made it possible to prove them. 

 

And also in Tosogu. You have to judge by yourself if you want to spend 800 USD for an artwork. That means: if you want to spent 800 USD even if it is gimei. Sometimes you will. I totally would and I have done it several times. There are a lot of Tosogu which are brillant and are unsigned or gimei.

 

Japanese craftsmen had a totally different concept of "original" then westerners had - and have today. A good copy of a masterpiece had its own worth and often was admired like the original. 

 

Signatures where and are important for westerners, they where not for the Samurai. So the salesmen would add a few signatures here and there to get a better price. That's all. It doesn't mean the artwork is not good. 

 

So please forget all that, Nikanoru is totally right when he says that you buy the artwork, not the signature or paper or certificate. And that's why everybody should decide for himself. 

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Peter I know this very well and I'm very unlikely to ever get caught out in this area. I think you can be sure of some signatures after all the process of kantei does not change or become more reliable based on your ethnicity its on your knowledge. 

 

I buy because I like something, but I abour listings which allude to an items genuineness. 

For example, someone lists a kozuka by Gotō Denjō and goes into the life history of this guy in that description when the mei is totally bogus and the seller knows it. Why give the history of the person least likely to have made it. 

You ask by PM "do you think that mei is shoshin? “

Reply because no one else will see it " Oh I don't know I never got chance to research it."

Yes had a few of these before and they are clearly trying it on. 

Got a gotō but I'll sell it before checking it's authenticity lol...... I don't think so. 

This isn't about me or any other knowledgeable people it's about trust. 

Still it's falling on deaf ears so I'll shut up now. 

The PM questions are not transparent enough and tempt sellers to "pitch" to buyers without recourse. 

 

Alex sorry to have hijacked your thread forgive me. 

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To end this never ending question, it is so easy to ask in a post : is the mei shoshin or not.

 

a few years ago I wrote a thread for newbies

 

 

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I am withdrawing all my statements in relation to this matter and offer my apologies who am I to question what been policy for over a decade. 

Please accept my sorry to all involved. 

I AM WRONG. 

Thank you Adam 

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No, Adam, you're right - my opinion is the same as yours
I honestly sometimes don't understand why experienced collectors avoid actually and truthfully describing the item they sell.
I am a businessman, I have been working in my profession for more than 25 years and I think I understand what I am doing.
If I were to treat the buyer as a professional - but you are an adult, if you want to spend xxx thousand EUR, you should know that what you pay for them ...
Who would buy from me?

I am new to nihonto and each of you has been new to someday
There is no doubt that education is needed. And part of the training is help from the experienced
I don't see any problem if the seller states - it's a great work that is in the style of this and that school or artist. But the signature is probably not authentic
To pretend, however, all experienced collectors know this is, in my opinion, alibi

It's my general opinion, Alex is an experienced and honest collector - it's nothing personal

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As with swords, if it doesn't have a paper,  then you pay relative to that.   A huge part of collecting is, the ability to trust oneself.   Of course this takes many years of learning, but, this is the crux, learning.  With the aid of the internet,  there is so many oshigata that even if one doesn't have the appropriate books, one may check signatures for oneself. And of course, we have Shinsa.

I'm generally not into Tosugu  but I know people who are and there has been items that were thought to be gimei but the workmanship matched and then passed Shinsa.   I have also seen both swords and Tosugu, that the consensus was they  were right, which turned out to be gimei.

So then,  when buying any tosugu or sword without papers,  if signed, consider them to be gimei.   Of course there are exceptions, but that's just that, exceptions.

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There is no question of being right or wrong, it is a question of being adult or not.

 

who is going to spend bucks or quids blindly without knowing what they buy.

 

buy books and read before buying any items

 

Brano, you have been a businessman for 25 years, I have been dealing in international financing for more than 35 years from South America to Eastern Europe via Africa. Don’t advertise you are not ready to strike a deal on NMB in asking the good questions.

 

David is right and it has been advertised on the Board at least a hundred times. No valid certificate=No added value if signed.

 

now, there is another way to post in the For Sale section, watch my sale :)

 

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I'm not worried about the papers. 

If I see an item that is the right quality and the right mei and that seller states "not been submitted to shinsa but looking at this image of a papered similar item you decide because I think it's bang on" then that's real honesty. 

Now if you could do the NMB test before the listing and get feedback you could then link to. "This item was also discussed on NMB, link here" Where the community worked to agree with you then wow! . That would be a brilliant listing. 

It's not about asking the right questions it's about presenting the advert the right way in the first place that few or no questions are required . 

Now because I don't want any more negative PM's telling me to shut the flick up, I'm bowing out once and for all. 

This is an excellent community and as such I think the more knowledgeable are almost expected to help the less. 

My apologies again for hijacking this thread poor Alex. 

MODS could you perhaps separate his original post and give him a clean start again? 

 

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Dear Adam, you suggest that sellers should provide all possible information in their sale advertisements.  Referring to two of your other posts, shouldn't you take your own advice when dealing with a craftsperson to get your tsuka wrapped or when trading tosogu?  You are expecting sellers to provide all possible information (instead of expecting buyers to be adults and follow caveat emptor).  Shouldn't you have provided all detailed information to the craftsperson with the shipment of your tsuka instead of assuming that he would do what you thought or contact you to ask?  Similarly, shouldn't you have laid out all your expectations for quality, return period, etc. before sending your items for trade.  I'm not a seller here, but I think you and Rayhan are trying to turn this into some Gestapo type forum with a bunch of rules (that you yourselves won't follow).  Just really getting tired of all the improper comments on sales here.

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Gents,

Thank you very much for all those comments. I feel like I need to say something :) 

Thank you, Adam, for attracting that much attention to my humble sales thread. If I sell something from here from now on I guess I will owe you a few coins for promotion :) 

I would love to support this discussion further but my English vocabulary is not that reach.

And since we are all businessmen, some with experience almost equal to my years on this earth, I will add one remark for the avoidance of doubt.

The purpose of the initial question is quite simple in my opinion and it’s not about mei  alone but more about adequacy of the price asked. So here I have to say the following. I always sell my stuff and at prices slightly above my cost just to allow a small bargain and paypal fee included along with the most comfortable and affordable shipping option. That’s my rule. I’m not an investor in arts. And at least one person on this board, no names, knows very well that I often sell items below my cost since I like to share, very same person and my good friend taught me this. I’m an enthusiast, a student, a collector. And when a person is offering for my item half the price it raises a question of person adequacy instead. I will never deal with such person. Collecting is about making mistakes, buying an item you like knowing that it’s overpriced, loving something that will never love you back :) 

When I’m buying/selling something I want to build relationship with the seller/buyer, doesn’t matter is it a dealer or collector, I want both parties to be happy, buyer to get his reasonable discount and seller his money back+. That’s my way and such approach allowed me to build a nice collection. We are not buying/selling stocks or commodities here, we are buying/selling art, positive emotions, pleasure, if you like. I’ve seen it in Japan when a dealer just denied an arrogant offer and didn’t want to deal even talk to the person, Westerner. Buying an item in Japan from an old dealer is a ritual like everything else, I think.

So I will gladly follow that ritual and answer all of the questions, to enrich the buyer and grow myself, and of course “strike a deal” that would make both parties happy :) 

Thanks!

And stay safe!

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