ancient forges

[Erez]

hello all

do any of you know of locations in Japan where one can see actual ancient swordsmith forges ? or whatever is left of it?  are there any preserved  in existence today? simply wonder how they looked in edo period or even earlier times...

good health to you all :-)

[Ken-Hawaii]

Yes, the Bizen-Osafune Sword Village in Okayama has tosho busily at work: https://www.okayama-Japan.jp/en/spot/1073

 

Don't know how COVID-19 is affecting them, though.

 

Also, unless Erez is your first name, please add it to every post.

[Erez]

thanks ken.

is the bizen osafune smithy they have today is the same that was used back in koto eras?

and yes, it is indeed my first name.

[16k]

Well, looking at the pictures, I’d say it’s not

[Tigerinbamboo]

Try here:

 

https://www.govoyagin.com/activities/Japan-kyoto-Japanese-sword-forge-private-tour-and-lesson-in-kameoka-kyoto/9132

[Ken-Hawaii]

No, Erez, the forge is modern, but they use the same tools & techniques as in ancient times. They also have experts making all the other parts of the sword, including saya, habaki, etc. My wife & I really enjoyed it.

 

I had to use three browsers before I found one (Edge) that gave me anything but a blank page, Kathleen, but that looks interesting. Not sure how much you can learn in that short a period, but it looks like he covers the basics.

[Peter Bleed]

Erez,

There are lots of charcoal fired swordsmiths' forges to be seen in Japan. These look very "traditional", but virtually everything you will see/visit has a power hammer - which I suppose you could just ignore.   Japan is good at that sort of thing.

Now as to remnants of 'OLD" forges, you might begin by looking for historic images and as I recall there are images of swords being made by smith using STONE(!) anvils. I believe that Gina Barnes had drawings of "old" forges in either/both Korea and Japan. As i recall, Gina could shpw only drawings that an archaeologist could like.

So what you really need to do is visit Kusado Sengen in Hiroshima Pref. As I recall they found and excavated a swordsmith's workshop that was flooded out in like 1490. Look it up.

Peter

[Bazza]

I had to use three browsers before I found one (Edge) that gave me anything but a blank page, Kathleen, but that looks interesting. Not sure how much you can learn in that short a period, but it looks like he covers the basics.

Firefox brought it straight up first time...

 

BaZZa.

[Ken-Hawaii]

I used Firefox first, then Chrome, but was staring at a blank page. Latest versions, too.

[Bugyotsuji]

Katheen has her Covid-19 shields up, I guess. 

[Erez]

thanks everyone!.

Peter, do you know if these drawings that you mentioned are online?

and\or pictures from kusado sengen swordsmith's excavated workshop?

thanks!

[Wolfmanreid]

Erez,

There are lots of charcoal fired swordsmiths' forges to be seen in Japan. These look very "traditional", but virtually everything you will see/visit has a power hammer - which I suppose you could just ignore. Japan is good at that sort of thing.

Now as to remnants of 'OLD" forges, you might begin by looking for historic images and as I recall there are images of swords being made by smith using STONE(!) anvils. I believe that Gina Barnes had drawings of "old" forges in either/both Korea and Japan. As i recall, Gina could shpw only drawings that an archaeologist could like.

So what you really need to do is visit Kusado Sengen in Hiroshima Pref. As I recall they found and excavated a swordsmith's workshop that was flooded out in like 1490. Look it up.

Peter

Stone anvils were pretty much the norm for forging in most of the ancient and medieval world. There are a number of reconstructed or excavated settlement era forges in Iceland with stone anvils and the sagas mention stone anvils quite a bit (they were valuable enough that smiths took them from Norway to Iceland sometimes). Iron was too scarce and valuable to waste forging into an anvil.

[Ganko]

Thinking about the stone anvils, if one considers the different thermal conductivities of granite(k=1.7-4) and steel (k=40-50), this might explain some of the differences in the older swords properties that can no longer be duplicated? They also used stone hammers.

Does anyone know when they quit using stone anvils and hammers?

[Tigerinbamboo]

Katheen has her Covid-19 shields up, I guess.

No shields, just intermittently oblivious to the rest of the world ????

I don't know why the link was unstable. I usually use Chrome. When I was in Tokyo last summer, there were a couple of places near the city advertising tours of traditional swordworking forges, with the chance to make your own sword or commission one, depending on how much time you had.

[Dave R]

Stone anvils were pretty much the norm for forging in most of the ancient and medieval world. There are a number of reconstructed or excavated settlement era forges in Iceland with stone anvils and the sagas mention stone anvils quite a bit (they were valuable enough that smiths took them from Norway to Iceland sometimes). Iron was too scarce and valuable to waste forging into an anvil.

 

 I have also seen photo's of armourers anvils in Bronze. It's not just a matter of cost, but also of production restraints. Anvils are a whole subject in themselves.

[Tigerinbamboo]

Maybe looked like this?