5 body cutting-test Katana!?

[Northman]

Hello folks,

 

While perusing the web for all things Nihonto, I came across a very interesting sword on Nick Ricupero's "Nihonto Art" website.

 

https://nihontoart.com/shop/incredibly-rare-5-body-tameshigiri-kinzogan-katana/

 

This is a Kawachi no Kami Kanesada Katana c. 1686 that apparently performed a 5-body cutting test!  That's the most I've ever seen on a sword - at least on one for sale on the open market.  

 

As someone who has practiced tameshigiri in it's modern form (heh heh...), I understand the power of a sharp, well balanced Katana with appropriate niku, but 5-bodies seems absurd!  Are there any doubts around the authenticity of these test-cut inscriptions?  Not saying that they could be modern faked inscriptions, just that at the time of "testing", those involved may have stretched the truth a bit?

 

Regardless - a beautiful sword with QUITE the reputation, no doubt.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Maybe five arms, or even five legs, but I don't believe that cutting five full bodies is possible, & I've been teaching tameshigiri for 15 years. I've got an e-mail in for Nick to get clarification.

[PNSSHOGUN]

There are a few with 5 body tests, but they are very rare and precious. Two to three were the most common. For large amounts of bodies the Yamada family testers used lead Tsuba of 4-6KG to assist cutting through that many bodies. There is a wealth of such information in the Markus Sesko book "Tameshigiri".

[Ganko]

Physics in action, if you don't have enough speed add some weight.

I never realized they added lead tsuba to increase the energy. I guess I should pick up Markus's book.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Nick confirms that it was five "dou," or belly cuts.

[Stephen]

Maybe it did five just not all stacked on each other. Like the cutting vids goes frome one to another.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Nope. Markus' book shows they were stacked;

 

[Stephen]

Looks like two to me..cut two move cut three.

[Stephen]

Please clarify does it say cut through five bodies with one stroke or just cut through five bodies?

[RichardP]

Isn’t there a blade with a seven-body cutting attestation that’s taken (at least semi) seriously?

[EdWolf]

The highest number of seven is also mentioned by Markus in the following article.

 

https://markussesko.com/2019/05/03/tameshigiri-with-a-ko-wakizashi/

[Stephen]

I doubt they stacked 5 let alone 7 side by side. Blade would not be long enough. I can't find my Sword n same* book. Stacking on top of each other would be the way to go.

 

Some other placements in cutting.

 

http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/06/24/cutting-bodies-illustrations-from-period-Japanese-manuals-on-tameshigiri-and-suemonogiri/

[peterd]

Hi, I have a wakizashi  with a very rare one body through the hips test, I believe this must have had the assistance of a lot of lead

regards

[Surfson]

Maybe they were cut one at a time.....

[Apercus]

Five cats

[Stephen]

Peter read MS link posted above.

Im sure a device like this was used.

[Greg F]

I remember reading about seven. Through the belly.

 

Greg

[Nickupero]

Thanks for starting the thread Stuart, I've been out for a little while, was in Japan up until the beginning of this month (got out at a good time).

I don't doubt this blade could have accomplished this, not because it is my piece but the blade already is uber heavy, probably 30%+ more than the average katana. So with Stephen's diagram (thanks Stephen) and the weight of the piece it would have had a good chance. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

Would it be possible to see a picture of the Tokubetsu Hozon paper? To my eye looking at the small pic it seems to have と金象嵌がある - to kinzōgan ga aru in brackets, which to me indicates NBTHK are having some reservations about the kinzōgan as they've added that line in brackets.

[Nickupero]

Hi Jussi, I could PM it to you but out of respect to the new owner I won't post it publicly.

A couple years ago I was fortunate to own another superb Tameshi with the same tester a couple years back (which I am able to post the Hozon so have done so below), was a 2 body, same writing on the Hozon... kinzogan ga aru. My guess is not many examples to go by as he was not a famous tester like the many available examples of the Yamato school?

Having handled many cutting test blades I've felt with my experiences the NBTHK was being overly cautious sometimes, kinzogan ga aru my guess is a way to cover their angles? One example I've seen a few times was the gold portion being repaired, which probably triggered doubt because of the varying patina of the Nakago. I don't know what was the case for this 2 body below. 

Maybe others will chime in with similar experiences or reasoning to this. 

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I hope my comment was not taken negatively. I was reading Markus' Tameshigiri book and it is stated that while 2 & 3 body tests were fairly common, results with more than 3 bodies are absolute rarity. I am not yet too well versed in cutting tests so I cannot comment much more.

 

I do agree that sometimes NBTHK seems to take a conservative stand.

 

Here are two more examples of Hitomi Denbei Shigetsugu cutting tests for reference.

[Nickupero]

Not at all Jussi, it was a good observation and thank you for pointing it out. In this case its't probably patina, I noticed blades with tameshi that were kept in original mounts had varying patina, also the inlay is scratched along the shinogi, this probably throws them off. I've seen kinzogan ga aru many many times on test cut swords especially. Also I think depends who's judging, time of the year, etc. perfect example was a client that got result of Horiyu, Tanobe wrote his opinion and it was then resubmitted and pass Tokubetsu hozon..... its an annoying and time consuming exercise.

 

funny thing is the NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon you posted above is a piece that currently belongs to me