Used and abused, but hoping for information.

[Guy0783]

Good afternoon,

 

My name is Curtis. I have two sons, 8 and 12, and a wife of 16 years. I'm 37, from Oklahoma and have interest in history, militaria, outdoors activities, firearms, blades, vintage watches...you get the idea I'm sure.

 

My father-in-law recently passed and was a prolific collector of mostly US militaria. However, he had also aquired some Japanese items, among them this sword. I'd love to identify it as much as possible and know the history behind the blade it is and it's significance to the family that would have owned it. It had a hard last 80 years for sure.

 

My father-in-law saw an old man cutting brush out of a fenceline with it more than 30 years ago. The man had brought it back from WWII and stated it made a fine machete. My FIL offered to buy it, but the guy wouldnt sell, insisting on his need for a machete. Eventually, he offered to trade my FIL for a new machete. Needless to say it didnt take long for him to go to Walmart and swap the old farmer out.

 

That's all I know about this sword. I know it doesn't hold much monetary value, and likely can't be restored. But any information you can give would be very much appreciated!

 

Curtis

[Guy0783]

Sorry, here are a couple pics. I have some more, but didnt want to put too many.

[Northman]

Quite the story behind that blade! Definitely beat-up, but may be worth further preservation measures. At the very least, based on the oxidization, it seems “old” (LOL).

 

Yes more pics will be required. Close ups of the blade are a must too. Also, some dimensions would be helpful (length of the cutting edge, length of the tang, width of the blade towards the base of the blade, thickness etc.). Pics and dimensions will be needed to say anything more about it really.

[Guy0783]

Here are some additional photos I have. Ill try to get some with measurements tonight. Thanks!

[Northman]

Also some pics close-up on the blade itself would be helpful.

[Guy0783]

Ok. Got back and snapped a few more pics with measurements. Hope these help. Looks approx 7mm thick at plunge, approx 4.5mm at the end of the tang, and approx 40mm 'sag' in the blade. Hope that's not too technical of a term....

[Guy0783]

Ok. Got back and snapped a few more pics with measurements. Hope these help. Around 28" overall. Looks approx 7mm thick at plunge, approx 4.5mm at the end of the tang, and approx 40mm 'sag' in the blade. Hope that's not too technical of a term....

[Guy0783]

Here are close ups of the blade, 3 pics of each side. Hopefully you can see what needs to be seen. Thanks again!

[Guy0783]

Finally, some close up of the decoration on the metal parts of the handle. I can't think of anything else to photograph, but id there's anything that would be helpful please let me know.

[tokashikibob]

Guy,  It is too far gone my friend.  R.I.P.

[Greg F]

Hi Curtis, congrats on your first Japanese sword. It couldve been in much worse condition considering its history and yes it can be restored although its very expensive. In some pics hamon can be seen. Whatever you do dont try any restoration or polishing yourself. Some will say its not worth the cost of restoration but if you can afford it I love seeing blades being brought back to the way they're meant to look.

 

Greg

[Guy0783]

I understand it doesn't hold much value and cost to repair would exceed value.

 

But, I'm interested in what type of sword it is, approx age, what it would have originally been intended for, what quality it may have been at the time it was forged, etc. Any info would be wonderful.

 

Curtis

[SAS]

I disagree that it is too far gone...maybe in its' current state it is hard to appreciate....but I like it. It looks to be perhaps an early Shinto Mino sword, sort of Izumi no Kami Kunisada like, gunome hamon, nice sugata....a samurai's blade. Other than the ware on the shinogi, I see no reason it would not polish up well (costs aside.)

[Wim V]

I agree with Steve.  The overall shape looks quite pleasing to me.  Nakago seems to be unaltered (ubu), and the yasurime look like taka-no-ha, which indicates indeed Mino (Seki) work.  What we can see from the hamon seems to confirm this: gunome with a hint of togariba.

 

Yes the kitae-ware looks a bit troublesome, but we have seen other miraculous restoration works in the past.  A good togishi may be able to save this one.

[Bruce Pennington]

Here is a page breaking down the sword eras: http://japaneseswordindex.com/period.htm

 

Shinto is late 1500s to late 1700s; Mino is a city.

[Guy0783]

Wow, thank you both for the information. Being new to this world, this gives me some new terms and words to research and familiarize myself with. It is refreshing to hear there may be hope for proper restoration in the future. At some point I may be able to justify the expense.

 

Even being new to this I have a high degree of respect for the smiths that created these blades. I have forged some small things, and made some knives, and realize the skill and soul it took.

 

I'll try to form my questions around the information you've provided after being able to process it.

 

Any other opinions, good or bad, are welcome. I appreciate the effort.

 

Curtis

[Guy0783]

Thanks for the link Bruce, that helps also!

[Tom Darling]

Save yourself the heartache and thousands of dollars. lock it up in a safe place.

 

 

Tom D

[Guy0783]

If there's interest, and it's allowed, I could post some pictures of a few Japanese flags he had amongst his militaria also.

[Guy0783]

So, after cursory research and the information you all have graciously provided this is my understanding of the blade.

 

It appears to be a Samurai's blade from the early Shinto period (approx 1600) appearing to be from the Mino area, the Nakago (tang) and Yasurime (file marks) appear ubu (unaltered) and Taka-no-ha (in a hawk-feather style). The Kitae (forging) shows wear that may have hope in the hands of a talented Togishi (polisher). The hamon appears Gunome/Togariba (undulating/?)

[nagamaki - Franco]

Steel looks 'lifeless' to my eyes. Which makes, if so, a talented polisher beside the point.

[Guy0783]

Most likely, it will be placed in the safe with a document noting it's features and origins. Maybe down the road it will get more attention in the way of restoration.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Lifeless steel is suggestive of a sword which in all likelihood has been exposed to excessive heat at some point during it's history. If such is the case, it's not much more than a souvenir. A polisher will be able to tell you for certain. This is not uncommon with nihonto.

[Ken-Hawaii]

 

Mino is a city

Mino is also one of the five Gokaden schools.

[MHC]

Removed my commentary, as on second thought, it did not pertain directly to Nihonto.

 

Mark

[Jacques D.]

Shape, nakago jiri and yasurime (which seem to be takanoha), suggest a late muromachi Mino wakizashi. 

 

measurements must be taken, bare blade and for nagasa (lenght) and sori (curvature) from the machi (notch)

[Tanto54]

Dear Curtis,

 

You've received some help on the sword, but you also asked about the fittings.  The menuki (the two small metal ornaments under the wrapping on each side of the handle) are dragons - male (with sword at the end of his tail) and female.  Your fuchigashira (collar and pommel parts of the handle) have nunome zogan rain dragons.  Numome zogan is an "on-lay" technique of adding one metal over another metal, literally “cloth inlay,” where the artist engraves lines in the surface of one metal and then pushes the other metal into those engraved lines.  In the case of your fuchigashira, the artist has onlayed thin gold wire in the shape of a special kind of dragon called a rain dragon.  I've linked a Youtube video of Ford explaining this technique below.  You appear to be missing several parts: a habaki (sword collar) and tsuba (bladeguard).  I've included pictures of what they might look like below.