Jump to content

Suishinshi Masahide Mei


Ed

Recommended Posts

I stated in my post that #5 and #8 look shoshin, so all others are gimei. Others have posted the 2 are the same sword, I failed to notice that and just compared each one by one. Again, ready to be proven wrong, Masahide has so many examples would hate to see one come in at a shinsa if I were on the team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Going by the usual factors of stroke strength, confidence, fluidity etc etc...I still don't see how #2 can be shoshin. Granted I am sure I will be wrong...but even accounting for age and changes over time, that mei is really poorly cut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Going by the usual factors of stroke strength, confidence, fluidity etc etc...I still don't see how #2 can be shoshin. Granted I am sure I will be wrong...but even accounting for age and changes over time, that mei is really poorly cut.

 

 

I think you are right, i checked it more carefully and notice a detail i did'nt see before and which is a constant in masahide's mei

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok guys, looks as though this thread has run it's course.

 

First I would like to say thank you to everyone who participated.  :bowdown:

 

The point of this thread was to see if everyone had as much trouble as I do distinguishing shoshin from gimei when it comes to this smith.  Reminds me of researching the Tadayoshi school.  

 

The fact that there were three generations which used this mei, combined with the looong career of the Shodai makes this a bit of a nightmare.  He began using this mei along with variants in 1774.  He began using his koku'in seal in 1806. In 1818 he gave the Masahide name to his son and began signing his works Suishinshi Amahide.

 

As you can see he signed Suishinshi Masahide for 30+ years.

 

As for the examples provided for this exercise, all are known shoshin examples with the exception being #7.  A few of you deemed #7 good, some bad.  Truth is, I do not know for certain as it has never been submitted to shinsa that I am aware of.  My guess leans towards gimei, but with all the variations I would not begin to say definitively either way. 

 

It is my opinion that only a trip to shinsa would give relatively accurate opinion. Sadly, the owner is not interested in sending it to shinsa.

 

BTW: 5 & 8 are the same sword.

 

Here are a few photos of the Tanto in the event you are interested in seeing it.

 

 

 

 

 

post-10-0-09165800-1575776000_thumb.jpg

post-10-0-73898500-1575776009_thumb.jpg

post-10-0-73748200-1575776088_thumb.jpg

post-10-0-74541900-1575776131_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A very interesting exercise Ed, and thanks for putting it together. Surprising result to me, I still cannot see how #2 could be shoshin, but I guess the work was textbook.
Now we need to post about 8 gimei examples and see how they compare :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, Smith's signing forgeries would outnumber the one real guy and thus would show even more variation than one person, so wouldn't it be more logically inclined to assume one out of eight is gimei than the otherway around?

 

Very cool thread Ed. Quality contribution!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ed,

 

You specifically asked which of the group is Suishinshi Masahide, and would provide the answer as you got them from reliable legitimate web sites?  My reference to the one I have is a wakizashi with kao dated 1818. I'll be happy to provide a picture asap.  Now which one ( #)  that you know for sure is Shodai. Thank you. Peace.

 

 

Tom D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Tom.

No worry, but actually, the question was for opinions on which of the examples, if any, you guys felt may have been gimei. 

 

please look over the following examples and tell me which of them, if any, you think may be gimei.”  

 

But to answer your question, they are all shoshin and Shodai works* except #3 (Sandai) and possibly #7.  #7 may be shodai and shoshin, but as it has not been submitted to shinsa, therefore I cannot say for sure.  I think #7, is close enough to gamble on shinsa, however if I have to err on a name like this I would have to err on the side of safety.  That is why I stated I leaned towards gimei.

 

I would still like to see your example if it closely matches #7 and is papered.

 

*Keep in mind that there are a couple of the examples on which I was unable to get copies of the papers.  Some of the Japanese sites will state, “NBTHK Hozon”, or “NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon”, however they do not provide photos of the papers.  Generally, they will indicate the generation as well, leaving a low probability of generational mistakes.

 

Examples:

Shodai: https://www.tsuruginoya.com/items/f00057.html

Nidai: https://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/a00298.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very interesting thread Ed, and I am bit surprised about the result. Even though I don't know much about swords of this time I didn't think all were papered and legitimate (apart from 7 which I think might be better signature wise than some of the papered ones). Was a fun guessing and made me look at stuff I might skip on normally.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Ed M,

 

I couldn't tell which of the other (2nd or 3rd) of two gen.are gimei.  I know that Kizu Yasu, John Yamoto, R. B. Caldwell and Dr. Compton were all in agreement that it is Shodai.

 

A shinsa was not necessary.  I will post a pic with the date in the near future. Great exercise in thought.  Peace.

 

 

Tom D.

 

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...