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Worthy tsuba or cast repro?

Tigerinbamboo

By Tigerinbamboo
in Tosogu

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Guido Grand Master

Guido

Posted
Posted

Guido, can you say what looks fake to you?

 

This tsuba looks "off" to me in quite a few ways.

 

The worst is the patina, which is awful. According to the listing, the material is shibuchi, and it might well be. However, the attempt at patinating it properly obviously failed: it’s blotchy and lacks depth. Probably in order to hide this, it was lacquered, but that also was a fail, as the wrinkled lacquer shows: either applied with a dirty brush, or on a dirty surface, or reacting with the “patina” – or a combination of all the three.

 

In order to make it look more real, fake seppa wear / discoloration was attempted. At least the person who did this should have been clever enough to use a seppa as a template, but instead he rubbed off a line free-hand, and missed some parts.

post-12-0-56127500-1573361117_thumb.jpg

post-12-0-05845900-1573361189_thumb.jpg

 

Neither the signature nor the workmanship is up to the standards of this famous maker; attached is a genuine example, judge for yourself.

post-12-0-18682100-1573361250_thumb.jpg

 

IMO the tsuba discussed here is a modern fake; the best case scenario is probably that it’s an antique fake with a botched attempt at “restoring” it. Anyhow, lacquer remover/stripper can be used without doing any harm to the patina (if it’s real/traditional, that is); got it straight from the horse’s mouth, and been there, done that. Putting clear lacquer on antique fittings is unfortunately a frequent occurrence in Japan …  :(

 

Lastly, going to Yahoo!Auctions one will see many tsuba that have this “funny” look to them – they never have papers, the seller doesn’t accept returns (like in this case), and they always sell for much less than what the (famous) artist usually goes for. Again, draw your own conclusion.

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Guido Grand Master

Guido

Posted
Posted

The poor merchant never had a chance,  what a glowing endorsement!

 

Are you seriously suggesting that my comments had the sole purpose of harming this particular seller’s sale? Let me assure you that I have no horse in this race, I just answered the o/p’s question. It's up to her to make up her own mind. Also, it's not my habit to post any blah blah blah just to boost my post count.

 

But since you chimed in: what is *your* opinion? Do *you* endorse this tsuba, and why? Not suffering from an inflated ego, I have no problem to be corrected if wrong.

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rkg Mentor

rkg

Posted
Posted

That's actually an interesting can of worms...

 

You've got modern mass produced pieces, modern one-off of old pieces, meiji/taisho period mass produced pieces (like that one ishiguro tsuba you see up all the time - if the artist did the run/was associated with the production, are they "fakes" or Giclées? :-)), Edo and earlier copies (both made to fool the buyer and "homage" pieces), and old pieces with an added mei...  Oh, and what what about designs that are "in the style" of old pieces made by later guys who actually signed the same way (think Noubie, Yamakichibei, etc)?

 

This particular piece/auction is so "yahoo Japan" these days.  Its pretty flashy, but it has issues, and... somebody paid a lot to look at it in hand :-/

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

 

I guess we should define "fake". If a piece is forged iron plate, with carving and inlays, but a gimei signature, that's not the same as a cast reproduction, or something painted black to look like shibuichi, no?

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TETSUGENDO Grand Master

TETSUGENDO

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Posted

What a jumble, many people saying more or less the same thing in different words.   Personally I think it's a traditionally made piece,  not a casting.   The fake part is that it is 'gimei' and not a period work by the artist.   Also, it does need  the attention of FH to put it in order.    My stated opinion is a composite one, I think it's obvious who's opinions I endorse.    BTW, the comparison of apples/oranges only clouds the facts.

 

-S-

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Tigerinbamboo Collaborator

Tigerinbamboo

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Gentlemen, I thank all of you for weighing in on this discussion. It appears this was a traditionally made, but perhaps modern, tsuba with a fake signature and a lot of deceptive / poor surface treatments, if I can summarize the opinions? I feel like I am learning a lot (and boy is there a lot to learn!) by looking at both excellent and awful examples and reading the incredible advice here. Thank you all!!

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Ford Hallam Grand Master

Ford Hallam

Posted
Posted

Hey Brian....I was trying to stay out of this melee  :glee:

 

As much as I hate to contradict my esteemed friend, Guido, I have to say that to my eyes this is a genuinely produced late Edo work.

 

It seems, as has been noted, some sort of varnish has been applied that looks pretty messy but that I suspect could be relatively easily rectified.

 

I very much doubt that there are today craftspeople working in Japan, or anywhere else tbh, who could work in such a distinctly pre-modern style. By this I mean the sort of familiarity and fluidity that comes from years of apprenticeship training and provides a degree of certainty in the way things are shaped or the confidence of direct chiselling. In this regard the 'authenticity' of the clouds is completely convincing. This is so much more than simply skilful carving, it reveals a solid understanding of the underlying 'rules' of composition (absent in much modern work) and a regularity in the way the forms are carved. This comes from many many years of repetition, a bit like the writing of an accomplished calligrapher, it is almost impossible to fake that degree of familiarity. It is completely uncontrived.

 

I won't comment on the mei, even the best artists produced lesser work on occasion, but while this isn't absolutely the premium division I think it is never the less a pretty decent example of fine craftsmanship. As Guido points out though, no papers with a big name means that in Japan it's not being taken too seriously. I think this reflects contemporary emphasis on papers and reselling considerations rather than an objective appreciation of the work itself. My point being that if the mei is not of too great a concern it's a pretty decent tsuba for a serious collector of this particular genre.

 

And Omar/ Raynor

 

Your shibuichi tsuba is, imo, a perfectly legitimate late Edo work and not a bad piece at all.

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