Umetada influence?

[Ford Hallam]

Shinchu is the Japanese term for brass ( specifically the Edo period alloy), brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. Typically Edo period brass/shinchu contains anywhere from 15 to 25% zinc. So yes, Steven is quite correct.

[Pete Klein]

Robert - what is the diameter of the tsuba please?

[BIG]

Shinchû = sentoku = 75% Kupfer + 20% Zink + 5% Zinn = Brass

Shibuchi= 75% Kupfer+ 25% Silber = grey patina

Shakudô = 95% Kupfer + 5 % Gold = black or brown patina

 

Best

[Surfson]

Hi Pete:  I don't have it in hand yet.  In mm according to the ad:  80X80X5 134 grams.  Since the hakogaki states 2 sun and 8 bun, that would be 84.8mm, slightly different. 

 

 Big, according to Wikipedia - 

• Shinchu, a brass-like mix of copper, zinc and lead, usually 75-84% copper, and just 1-5% lead

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irogane

 

I imagine that the fine details, such as zinc content, it will be more or less red or yellow.

 

Cheers, Bob

[Pete Klein]

When you receive it perhaps you could post the diameter then?  Thanks.

[Surfson]

Will do Pete!  B

[Ford Hallam]

Sentoku and shinchu are quite different alloys.

 

The lead content of shinchu is less then 0.5%  and is merely a byproduct of the de-silverisation of copper.

 

Small variations in zinc content will be unlikely to effect the patina colour, but surface corrosion might reduce the relative zinc concentration in the surface of the alloy.

 

Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information on Japanese metalwork materials and technique 

[Alan Morton]

These are the papers for the brass "shinchu' tsuba that Ford posted

https://richardturne...-tsuba-正阿弥雲龍図鐔/

[Surfson]

I like that tsuba a lot Alan, but didn't see the papers in the link either the first time or this time going back to it.   Can you post a photo of them?  Cheers, Bob

[Surfson]

Here is a shot of the papers for Alan's tsuba:

 

[Surfson]

Looks like Shoami to me.  

[Ed]

Yep, Shoami.  Papers also state "Shinchu".

[DirkO]

Similar one (I really liked it, but just missed out on it, currently in Scandinavia somewhere) - papered to Ko-Shoami

[Markus]

I have my troubles reading everything but this is what I got:

 

真鍮地　無銘

丸形　径弐寸弐分

両◯

地◯鉄◯厚味一分二厘

文字、◯模様入

右桃山期太刀金具師

稀品也

昭和五十二年十月吉日

鳥越在耶誌

 

Shinchū-ji, mumei

Marugata, kei ni-sun ni-bu

Ryō ?

Ji ? tetsu ? atsumi ichi-bu ni-rin

Moji, ? moyō hairi

Migi Momoyama-ki tachi-kanagu-shi

kihin nari

Shōwa rokujūninen jūgatsu kichijitsu

Torigoe Saro shirusu

 

Brass, unsigned

Round shape, diameter ~ 6.7 cm

Two ?

? iron ? thickness of ~ 3.5 mm.

Has a décor of characters and ? pattern.

Above described is a rare tachi-kanagu-shi work from the Momoyama era.

Written by Torigoe Saro on a lucky day in October of 1977.

 

 

As for the third line, I would expect something like "two hitsu(ana)" (両櫃), but as Steve pointed out, the characters that appear to be stated there (両家 or 両字), don't make sense. 

[Ford Hallam]

I was just looking again at the images on my computer, and not my phone as previously, and would have to say the body of the tsuba does in fact now look to be brass/shinchu. I can see a couple of pale ochre rubbed areas that would indicate brass rather than copper.

[Surfson]

Thanks Markus!  That does sound like the tsuba in question, except for the size.  Though I have yet to receive the tsuba, the listing said it was 80mm in diameter.  Is there are converter of sun, bu and rin to mm and cm somewhere that you use?   Cheers, Bob

[Surfson]

I found this converter.   But is it ni bu or hachi bu?  

 

https://www.kampaibudokai.org/Script.htm

[TETSUGENDO]

Now we just wait on Cinderella!

 

 

-S-

[Surfson]

Hi All.  Well, the little honey finally arrived.  In the meantime, I have tried to make a composite translation of the hakogaki.  (note that I have updated it based on new input from Morita San and replaced it).  Special thanks to Markus San, Morita San and Moriyama San!   The "composite" shows our somewhat feeble attempt (labeled BS at each number, for Bob and Setsuko), Markus (labeled M in red), Morita San (labeled in blue with MTA) and Moriyama San (labeled blue with Mya).  

 

Two issues came up:   Shinchu, and diameter.  

 

As to shinchu, I am attaching a photo of the inside of the nakago ana, showing a very nice brass color.  Clearly either when the etching was done or subsequently, the color was changed to a darker orange.  

 

As to diameter, our reading seemed to say 84mm and Markus' seemed to say 67mm.  Neither could have been correct, since the listing stated 80mm.  As it turns out, the diameter of the shinju plate is precisely 67mm.  The mimi is 6.5 on each side for a total of 80mm.   

 

Bottom line, I believe that this box is original to the tsuba, though we could argue about whether this tsuba is in the tachikanegushi style.  

Sorry to drag you through all of the translations, but it seems that this was made fairly late in Torigoye's life, and his penmanship may have been flagging.... Cheers, bob

 

 

[Surfson]

Sorry, I should have included Markus' most complete translation from above.   Here it is again.  

 

Brass, unsigned

Round shape, diameter ~ 6.7 cm

Two ?

? iron ? thickness of ~ 3.5 mm.

Has a décor of characters and ? pattern.

Above described is a rare tachi-kanagu-shi work from the Momoyama era.

Written by Torigoe Saro on a lucky day in October of 1977.

[TETSUGENDO]

Robert,

 

What a convoluted journey, no matter, all is fine and after many calculations, it's a perfect fit...80mm the magic number...  Congratulations!    If you decide on further exploration in the future, and find something of additional interest, please let us know.

 

-S-

 

p.s.- thanks, to all our tireless translators