Pilot Sword

[IJASWORDS]

It happened in the IJN as well . A wakizashi length Kai Gunto. See photo against standard length sword. Must be from a submarine crew. Only joking , but I have seem them marketed this way .  

[PNSSHOGUN]

Interesting that the handle is the same length as a normal sword, I would say wakizashi size swords in full or slightly smaller size mounts are more common than these miniature examples. If the officer had money they could get anything mounted however small or large they wanted.

[IJASWORDS]

John , some examples of shorter swords with shorter handles , both army and navy . 

[vajo]

What the nakago says Michael? Btw a nice waki and the koahirae looks very good.

[Ontario_Archaeology]

Another video with images of tankers standing outside of their tanks some with swords.

 

(around 50 seconds)

[Bruce Pennington]

Great video Matt!!! Definitely LONG swords. Myths and legends are hard to put down as the word-of-mouth netword spreads them exponentially. One of the great things about this forum is we get to collect evidence and bring clarity to our collecting world.

[Ontario_Archaeology]

I think if we had a thread where we could collect period pictures / videos of gunto it would do a lot of good to figure out when or where they were used. If we could narrow down dates of when the photos were taken we might be able to see if attitudes changed overtime. I usually give the photo albums on ebay a good once through, but have never thought of archiving those pictures for this use until today.

[Bruce Pennington]

Pilot with standard length gunto:

 

[IJASWORDS]

Watched a History Channel show on Kamikaze pilots. This pilot had a nice pattern 2 NCO sword. 

[Dave R]

 Reading this I was reminded of one of the photo's in my files, a Japanese officer with what we would in the past have called a pilot sword. Leather covers and all.

[sbf]

Watched a History Channel show on Kamikaze pilots. This pilot had a nice pattern 2 NCO sword. 

This guy is a tanker, not a pilot, at least according to the helmet he is wearing.

 

Steve

[IJASWORDS]

Steve, only going on what the documentary said. The subject was Japan's diminished number of properly trained pilots towards war end. So that they started to do minimal training for Kamikaze pilots.  

[Bruce Pennington]

And in either case, tanker or pilot, it demonstrates our point - they carried full-length gunto.

[Ontario_Archaeology]

I came across this auction and although I can't read the documents attached with this sword the translation of the description has some interesting information! 

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/l638857617

 

It states:

"Since you cannot take it with you before boarding the special attack aircraft, it will be handed over to the mechanic and returned to your family. There are documents of the proof of the Special Attack Units. It seems that the mechanic said that the kamikaze aircraft on which this person was aboard had passed away without the Hinomaru due to lack of supplies at the end."

 

If this is to be believed then there would never really be a need for pilots to carry anything shorter, and further put the nail in the coffin about the "pilot/tanker" sword myth. 

[BANGBANGSAN]

 

In the movie "俺は君のためにこそ死にに行", there is a pilot when he going for last mission, he gives his Gunto(full-length )to his father before take off. It's at 0:50 in this clip.

[vajo]

[sbf]

This guy is a tanker, wearing the standard winter field hat instead of the winter tank helmet.

[Bruce Pennington]

The guy on the right is a platoon Sgt Major and it looks like (though difficult to see) he's got a family sword re-fitted for the war.  The tsuka looks like real ito and the tsuba is quite thin.

[Jay Dee]

Under pilot sword can someone post this for me, I cannot get by the security check.

There is a documentary on the I-400 Toku Sub that at one time had a scene in it showing a pilot showing an issued Tokko short sword awarded by the captain before the misson they were to carry on the planned kamikazi mission against the Panama Canal.. Is anyone familiar with that sword?( or have a photo ). It is actually more like a hari kari knife in size,but is still considered a sword,and is frequently referred to regarding this sub in many articles. Wouldn't that sword  be the only sanctioned example of an issued sword for a navy pilot ever made specifically for carrying during a misson.? In the scene as I recall, the pilot pulls it out of a silk bag, and it shows several Japanese characters on the shirasiah . I believe that pilot is still living. Was it the 361st naval squadron ? 

[Jay Dee]

Looks like my post worked. One more thing....is there anybody out there that watched any Sen Toku submarine documentary, or read any books on the subject, that recalls which one shows the pilot showing his sword as I previously stated, better yet, is there an example of this rare sword in the Japanese sword museum? I only saw the sword being shown once, then never saw it again. This is not to be mistaken with two swords surrendered to the US upon the subs surrender. The captain gave the pilots the Tokko sword on route to their first mission. I have the quote if anyone doubts it's true. Thanks. 

[Bruce Pennington]

John,

I haven't seen the video you reference, but Ohmura has several pages on the Kamikaze operation: http://ohmura-study.net/310.html#2

In them, you will see all the photos of pilots wearing, and holding full-sized kaigunto.  There is one photo I could find of them holding both the gunto and the "pilot knife."

 

Here is his page on the "pilot knife": http://ohmura-study.net/767.html

 

And pics of examples:

[ribendao]

My own little contribution to this topic that you guys probably are already aware of. The Japanese pilot Nobuo Fujita was tasked with bombing Oregon during the war. The picture below is the sword he carried on his mission and is currently residing in a library in Oregon. When thinking of the "pilot's sword" myth, I always think back to this kai gunto that Fujita brought with him and how it helps bust this myth wide open.

[Jay Dee]

First to Bruce, thanks for your photos and comments. The I-58 was a forerunner of the later 400 sub. The Documentary I saw was of the last I-400 pilot displaying his sword,as the Japanese who assisted in the documentary should know of his Tokko shown in whichever documentary it was in,as much is the same info or similar. I have a quote from the transcript that talks of the issued sword... I will add it IF I can find it,but this footage does exist.

    Here is some info from this site:http://www.combinedfleet.com/I-400.htm

( and specifically this section below proving swords were awarded prior to the mission) I also have other references to it in other writings)

[Jay Dee]

Hereis another reference of this Tokko short sword in a different article:

 

And thanks ribendao, that is a gift to the Oregon town from the pilot who attacked it unsuccessfully. I will reference him in the next frame , he was the one Spielberg used to model the movie 1941 from. There was two full size swords also surrendered from The I-400 upon it's surrender, and I have a reference to those swords also I will try to add. 

[Jay Dee]

Darn it, I lost a page , my point was that I believe they did issue short swords on submarines carrying aircraft definitely,so I guess I'm not in the " Nope" club, and now I just need to see the one Lt. Asushi Asamura showed in the missing footage I cannot locate. 

    Those listed by photo in the following link I will add ,might be sources to find his or a photo of an elusive I-400 Tokko short sword in the future. If anyone finds a photo or the footage, leave me a note on the thread. Bruce Pennington is the closest so far to what I recall in the Documentary to be closest to the one posted in his top photo (the shorter version). Thanks again Bruce.        https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/Japanese-supersub-production-biographies/570/

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi John, officers swords were not issued but privately bought as part of the required uniform and equipment. It is not a stretch to imagine an officer recommended to find a smaller sword for his assignment, but he would not be issued one.

[Bruce Pennington]

Very interesting topic John, thanks for bringing the stories!  I agree with John (PNSSHOGUN), that we might be talking about  2 things - "issued swords" were only Type 95s to NCOs.  These short swords were "presented" or we might say gifted in honor of their upcoming mission.

[Ontario_Archaeology]

From another thread I remember reading about a sword dealers experience selling swords to families getting their sons/brothers/fathers ready for war and I can't help thinking that there probably was a market for shorter swords. In that post there is only mention on the quality and the price of the swords being sold, however I believe that there may have been cases where shorter swords were probably bought because they were less cumbersome and maybe more practical. This maybe especially true for individuals who are in paratrooper/tank/submarine units where they maybe more aware that a full length sword may impede their fighting ability. This is however all guess work with no hard evidence to support it.  

[Jay Dee]

The verbiage is different with different reports. In one for 20th of july it states: Just before their departure, pilots receive their short swords from Captain Ariizumi. Another article says: Each was presented with a Tokko short sword.

  Another says: they were gifts sent by the 6th fleet commander and HANDED OUT, this is the quote:  There was a solemn send-off ceremony on July 19 in Maizuru—a ceremony that had become an increasingly frequent routine in the Japanese navy and army air forces in the last days of the war, as pilots of Tokko Tai (Special Attack Corps) readied themselves for their final sortie. The 12 crewmen of the six Seirans were each presented with a dagger in an unlacquered wooden scabbard—a samurai warrior’s personal weapon that has not drawn blood—as a symbol of prayer for success in their last and highest mission of honor. The daggers were sent by the sixth fleet commander in chief and personally handed out by Ariizumi. These gifts expressed an unspoken expectation that each samurai would not hesitate to make the final dive of his aircraft and dash himself and his comrade into the enemy target to ensure the success of the mission in defense of  the “ancestor’s land.” That these missions were tokko (special attack), called “kamikaze” by Westerners, was solemnly understood by the flight crew, the commanders, and the nation. It may not have been written in the order of the battle, but it was implicit in the prevailing doctrine of battle, the sacred ritual, and the mounting urgency of the homeland defense. For the first time in the kenkon itteki strategy that had produced the one-mission aircraft designed for maximum effect, the mission became a truly one-way tokko attack. 

Heres the link: 

https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/all-and-nothing-2590902/?page=3

It may have been that terminologies from Japanese words to English did not translate the same, so ..Is it semantics, or interpretation, who can say, but the Imperial records might shed light on if the Tokko Sword/ or Dagger ,whichever you choose to think of it to be is another example of varied interpretation in itself.

    There are writings of actual goodbye letters from kamikazis saved, some of which are available on my next link, the interested may shed light on the subject, but I have not read them yet.....too many, but here they are.

http://www.kamikazeimages.net/writings/

   As I said the subject hasn't been fully investigated regarding the elusive sword end of this discussion,but,to me Japans records should be the final word...regarding IF the nature of blades like the ones submarine kamikazis had were both issued, presented, or what, but seems no one has asked yet to see the records,or find out what sword maker made them.

    From my brief investigation, there were 12 "given"(we will say) out on the I-401, so a possible total of 36 for the I-400 class pilots may have been forged for these flying Samurai.

    I respect all opinions on my humble observations. (More to come)

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Three more pilot pics, not one waki among them.  From Otto Maxein's book, Samurai Sword for the Material Battle