Need help with ID and restoration.

[REY0010]

Hello everyone, I come to you again seeking help from the masters. I recently bought a sword from a gentleman on Craigslist for $100 bucks that caught my eye. I already posted in the translation tab because It has a surrender tag, and I was having a hard time figuring out if it was real. A few amazing people helped me out and not only translated the tag but also told me it was real. Since then I’ve decided I would like it to be professionally polished but I just want to make absolutely sure it’s real before I do because there are a few things that are still a little fishy to me. 1. The habaki and Seppa have like a gold foil over them 2. The Tsuka doesn’t seem to be 2 pieces put together but one and the rayskin has a gap 3. The saya appears to have a plastics exterior covering the wood. If I could just get final confirmation on legitimacy that be fantastic. If it is real I’d have a few polishing options to run past you for a recommendation.

Thanks a lot in advance -Ryan

[TETSUGENDO]

Hi Ryan,

 

Everything looks real, the best thing to do is send/take it to a polisher for assessment before investing a great deal of money into restoration, looks like near a couple of thousands of dollars of work is needed.   Unless the blade is something special, unfortunately, the cost of restoration/polishing, greatly outweighs its value.

 

Good luck,

      -S-

[Geraint]

Dear Ryan.

 

To take your points in order; gold foil over habaki and seppa is correct and to be admired, the tsuka will have been made from two pieces but a good joint will be invisible,  some gaps in the same are not uncommon, sometimes because the same is made up from smaller pieces where the joins will be covered by the binding and sometimes due to shirinkage, the covering for the saya, assuming you don't mean the tape around the mouth, is not plastic but urushi, Japanese lacquer.

 

The sword is absolutely genuine though it has suffered a little over the years.

 

Do please ask for recommendations for restoration but be aware that this is going to be done by experts and will cost you.  At $100 you have some wriggle room but a good restoration is going to cost quite a bit.

 

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

All the best.

 

(Steven got there before me.)

[REY0010]

Perfect, thanks a lot guys, I just had to make sure. For polishing I’ve already contacted 2 places, San Francisco Japanese sword society, and David hofhine. San Francisco Japanese sword society quoted me 575 for a full polish but are really adamant on me getting a new Shirasaya which I’m not that interested in cause I’d prefer a new koshirae if I had to get something new. David hofhine quoted me 695 for a full polish but has a wait list of about 23 months. I can link the websites below, but has anyone out there has experience with with either of these places so I can confirm their real and do a good job. I’m also open to other places to have it done if someone knows a good one around the same price. I’d prefer to stick to North America if possible, I feel like shipping would be crazy to Japan. Thanks again -Ryan

 

https://sites.google.com/site/sfswordsociety/

 

http://ipolishswords.com/Services.html

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Ryan,

I think you would be very smart not to restore your sword now; you don't know nearly enough to make informed decisions.  Do yourself and your pocketbook a huge favor and take the time to learn more about Nihonto.  The sword can wait and if someday it is determined that it warrants the expense of restoration you should take it to a properly trained polisher.  From what I can see in your pictures, it seems unlikely that the sword would be worth the expense.  If I am correct in this, any polisher who tells you it makes sense to polish and have new koshirae made either is dishonest or doesn't know what he's doing.

Grey, 35 years experience and still a beginner

[cuttingedge59]

Perfect, thanks a lot guys, I just had to make sure. For polishing I’ve already contacted 2 places, San Francisco Japanese sword society, and David hofhine. San Francisco Japanese sword society quoted me 575 for a full polish but are really adamant on me getting a new Shirasaya which I’m not that interested in cause I’d prefer a new koshirae if I had to get something new. David hofhine quoted me 695 for a full polish but has a wait list of about 23 months. I can link the websites below, but has anyone out there has experience with with either of these places so I can confirm their real and do a good job. I’m also open to other places to have it done if someone knows a good one around the same price. I’d prefer to stick to North America if possible, I feel like shipping would be crazy to Japan. Thanks again -Ryan

 

https://sites.google.com/site/sfswordsociety/

 

http://ipolishswords.com/Services.html

 

Hi Ryan ,

Both of these polishers are not Japanese trained and you are paying for what you get. Traditionally trained polishers are priced at USD $100 per inch. 

However IF you where to use one of these then Hoffine would be the one based on price . STAY AWAY from  San Francisco sword society and Eric Roush as both will 

cause you nothing but pain and grieve never mind a crap polish .

 

I would recommend either Benson in Hawaii or Woody Hall in Las Vegas. If polished you will need to have a shirasaya made or a new saya.

 

Regards 

Chris NZ

[Brian]

Rad through the FAQ for a good write up on "Should I have it polished" by Grey. There are also numerous other relevant topics. http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/faq.html

[Surfson]

Ryan, I agree with Grey and Brian entirely on this.  This sword is almost certainly not worth a proper restoration from a financial perspective.   As far as I can tell, it is a mumei, somewhat short wakizashi.  Even if it had a pretty famous name on it (let's say one of the Tadayoshi smiths), it would probably not be worth the cost of a polish.  Because it has chips in the blade, it will need to be reshaped and will get even skinnier than it is now.  Without a signature, you will almost certainly never get your money back when you sell it.  

 

In many cases, people come here and have a family owned sword that has sentimental value and we just have to say ok, go for it, since it comes from the heart.  They never intend to sell it, so the cost only matters in an absolute sense, not a relative value sense.  Based on your post, I am guessing that this is your first sword and you are being swept up in the romantic notion of restoring it to the beauty that it will undoubtedly have after its done.  However, at some point, you will realize that it is a rather pedestrian, unsigned, short wakizashi and are ready to move on to something better.  As you study these amazing pieces of art and war, you will discover things that you like and want more.  It will be painful at that point, when you want to take your investment back out of this sword, to find out that you have invested over $2000 into it and it is worth around $1000.

 

My advice is to enjoy it, study it, buy a few books (plenty of recommendations on NMB - I usually recommend the John Yumoto or BW Robinson starter books), take it to a show and show it to experienced collectors to talk about what school it might be from, how old it might be etc. You will have a lot of fun finding out more about your new treasure.  When you inevitably decide that you really like something at the show more than your sword, you will be able to sell it for $500-800 or so (just my guesstimate), and will have a tidy sum to invest in something much more "collectible".  

 

By the way, congratulations on a good find.  You certainly saved it from a worse fate and you got an excellent buy on it.  Cheers, Bob

[SAS]

Based on the photos, I doubt that the pitting and the hakobore (chipping) would disappear in a conservative proper polish. When excessive polishing occurs, there is a loss of steel , and numerous other defects may emerge at the surface. This is irrespective of the costs involved.

[REY0010]

Thanks a lot for all the wisdom guys I really appreciate it. Maybe I am jumping the gun a bit, I think I just got worried it’s gonna get worse. It’s oiled up good at the moment so it should be good for a little while. Maybe it is best left as is.