translation assistance

[watchdude]

need help. we will go live on live auctioneers on this one at no reserve in a few days. Not just P*ming the sale, but really do want to be accurate in our description. A rather spirited debate ensued when I asked on a FB group. One of the participants led us to the austere and noted expert group.  thanks. (we will change the description based on info gleaned here) . https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Circa-1390-Nihonto-Samurai-Sword-Japanese-Gold-Inlay/333142704462?hash=item4d90da414e:g:PjwAAOSwSRJcpNDJ

[ChrisW]

Not an expert by any means, just a novice here. And I get that the price you have there is to dissuade buyers for the time being. But you have what appears to be a rather large fukure (open carbon blister) where the steel has delaminated on the cutting edge (aka hamon). Anywhere else (and smaller) and this isn't as big as a problem. But on the edge where the hardened steel is, that'd be called a fatal flaw meaning that this blade is essentially dead to serious collectors. It appears there are a few such fukure. It appears the blade is suriage (cut down) which isn't a problem really; it happens over the lifetime of older blades due to the changing laws in Japan, preference of the owner, or for repair purposes. However, the older the blade is, generally the more forgiving collectors are when it comes to fatal flaws.

 

As for translation, you'll have to wait on people better versed. I cannot read any Kanji at all and rely on the good graces of those here that can.

 

Those are my two cents. And of course, I could be (and likely will be shown to be incorrect), but its rather hard to tell from the photos of the blade provided. You should take several more of the blade itself up close and as well-lit as possible to really get the best opinion from the experts here as possible. There are guides located in the How To section that ought to help with that.

[Ray Singer]

__具作

 

__tomo saku

 

Struggling a bit on the first kanji.

[rebcannonshooter]

I'm kinda in the same boat as Ray, I can't make out the first kanji, but the next kanji looks like "TOMO" (if you remove the rust on the top part of the kanji) and "saku"

I'm very confused as to the attribution to Ryokai YoshiHito, or Ryokai YoshiSune. I don't see anything that leads to that suggestion. What am I missing???

 

 Tom M.

 

Also there looks to be another kanji between the two ana, BTW I love the carp fuchi-kashira

[Ray Singer]

__真作 is also possible, depending on what was under that spot of rust.

[watchdude]

as i said I reached out on a FB board and a Japanese gentlemen said "There looks to be another stroke where the rust is above the '具', and there is also a Ryōkai Yoshizane listed:

YOSHIZANE (能真), 1st gen., Ōei (応永, 1394-1428), Bungo – “Ryōkai Yoshizane” (了戒能真), Tsukushi-Ryōkai school, according to tradition the son of the 2nd gen. Yoshisada (能定), we know blades from the Meitoku (明徳, 1390-1394) to the Ōei era, he also worked in Buzen and some traditions say that he even worked in Yamashiro, jō-saku

[John A Stuart]

Tough. John

[Jussi Ekholm]

My guess is the Ryōkai Yoshizane as suggested above but I'd give wider dating range of 1400's. I think the signature is 了戒能真作 Ryokai being above the ana. I believe nakago is original length and perhaps a slight machi okuri, impossible to say from the one picture (for some reason pics in the eBay sale don't show up for me).

 

Here is a papered tachi from the same Yoshizane line for reference, https://web.archive.org/web/20121022025221/http:/www.nipponto.co.jp:80/swords/KT120079.htm

[Ray Singer]

I really should have read that correctly. I found a Bizen Yoshimitsu (能光) relatively recently and the 能 kanji should have been fresh in my memory.

 

Jussi is of course correct with the reading above.

[watchdude]

thanks so much. so for clarity and honesty we should change the liveauctioneers auction to read "possibly"Ryōkai Yoshizane and likely 1400?

 

thanks

[Ray Singer]

May be better to more broadly say Muromachi period.

 

 

I would not include the date 1390, as that predates the first generation and is part of the previous period (Nambokucho).

 

Here is a reference example.

 

[watchdude]

we have 5 swords and many other things.https://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/137694_militaria-antiquities-judaica-fine-decorative/

[Brian]

Yeah, but you have ignored every piece of advice and every translation here, and gone with what is almost certainly incorrect.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/70708952_antique-circa-1390-nihonto-samurai-sword-Japanese

 

Hmmm

[nickm]

Funny how it worked out.. Seems looking for affirmation more than education..

[mdiddy]

Given the length and shape, I think the sword in question is much more likely to be a mid-Muromachi katateuchi ca. 1470s+ than something from late Nambokucho or Oei ca. 1390s. For comparison, I’ve attached the entry for Yoshizane from Fujishiro showing an example dated 1497, which interestingly, is also in my collection. I attached some pictures of the blade too.

 

Ryokai Yoshizane examples are rare enough. Pity the one in question has the fukures and wares, else would have been a good contender for restoration with the horimono, mei, etc.

[Surfson]

So this sword was posted both on ebay ($20,000 or best offer) and on Live Auctioneers (where the bidding stopped at $2000).   Apparently that was not enough for the owners and the item was passed.  My sense is that $2K is about right, considering the condition of the blade and the uncertainty of the mei.