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New member and new Matchlock


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Good day everyone,

 

First time poster here and was guided this way via a post I had made on Facebook as I have just recently come into posession of a Japanese matchlock and I am hoping to gather more information about it as I don't know too much about them whatsoever.

 

I'm entirely new to Japanese matchlocks and so I don't even know where to start witg it as far as dating, working up a load to shoot it, etc. Any and all help would be very deeply appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Kevin

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Saw the post there, glad you made it here.
It's a nice piece, looking mostly complete. I think someone will give you some info. But look in the FAQ top right (on a pc) and you will see a section on disassembly. Will be signed.

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Dear Kevin.

 

Others much more skilled than I will chime in but I suspect that this is a reproduction.  Not the lack of signature but other features suggest this to my eye.  It might well be a shootable version but you need to let others assure you of that.

 

All the best.

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Dear Kevin.

 

Others much more skilled than I will chime in but I suspect that this is a reproduction.  Not the lack of signature but other features suggest this to my eye.  It might well be a shootable version but you need to let others assure you of that.

 

All the best.

I'd be very interested to know what stands out and if it is possible to minimize this. If it does turn out that it is a reproduction, that's not an issue for me as it means I can refinish and restore it without fear of ruining an antique!

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Just had a quick look on the phone display, but as Brian says parts of it, like the barrel, and much of the brasswork look right. The woodwork (stock/butt) look like a reproduction/rebuild. Lack of a signature is not unusual. The bisen breech screw might also have been replaced.

(Reproductions unless silly, cheap and obvious, are not able to be registered or used legally in Japan, so I have little experience of handling an accurate repro like the ones made in the States etc.)

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PS as to shooting this, you’d really need to get it checked out by a gunsmith first. Without a proof mark, the No. 1 eyeball and other instruments may be necessary to avoid any possibility of blowing apart.

How does it look down the inside of the barrel? How does the pan vent look when you open the lid? Can you feel air through the vent?

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I considered a repro, but some parts look good. Sculpting on some of the brass is good, and there seems to be age and "use" patina on some parts too. But then I also see signs of modern "browning" solution on some iron parts too, and something odd about the wood shape. Trigger guard looks added to me...flat profile?
I don't really know. Maybe a restored old gun. Maybe not. As Piers said, you need to get it checked out. Maybe post more pics...top of the lock, pan cover open and closed..etc etc.
Something odd about the trigger too. Maybe remade part?
You might have an ok shooter here.

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Let me go out on the proverbial limb here and state that this is a late Edo period Tazuke-ryu matchlock with one or two unusual features.

The square-shaped end to the butt and the round bisen-screw is spot on Tazuke-ryu. The somewhat elongated Kaiguchi (grip holding the matchcord in place) might also suggest Tazuke. That it lacks a signature is completely unimportant as Piers already explained, even if a signature would help us locate where it was made. In this case my bet would be Kunitomo or Sakai/Osaka.

The shape of the trigger is really unusual, but if you handled a lot of matchlocks, you know that there is always that odd one. The flat look of the trigger guard also looks a bit strange. The stock? Well, I actually think it might be the original one. The wood is quite light and might have had some polishing done to it, but otherwise it doesn’t seem to lack anything. The fittings around the pan look to be of very nice quality. As Brian said, some more pictures might help us to further narrow it down.

An interesting study piece! What’s the caliber?

 

Jan

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More photos! Let me know if there is anything else I can photograph to help identify it!

 

The trigger guard is not flat barstock but is rather somewhat of a hemisphere. Almost flat but slightly domed on the inside and very domed on the outside.

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Dear Kevin.

 

(Bye the way, you can auto add your signature to all posts in your profile.)

 

If nothing else this has given me some profitable time looking at my limited resources on matchlocks.  As is often the case there is much information but not exactly what you want.  Brian and Jan are heading towareds the side of this being genuine and I would be delighted if that were the case.  Here are a few points to consider. 

 

The stock, certainly recently refinished but it is not made of Japanese oak which is the usual material, it seems to be Beech but hard to be sure from photographs.

The trigger guard, heavy proportions and the way it is fixed to the stock looks pretty rough, the gauge of the metal in the ring behind it is also a concern.

The pan cover, is it brass?  The thumb lever to open the pan seems at an odd angle.

The barrel protector,  again is this brass?  It seems to be a poorly fettled casting.  

The brass butt cap, gauge, finish and the large size of the pins all concern me.

The breech plug, looks remarkably clean and new for a gun that is at least 120 years old.

The pan, do you think it has ever been fired?

 

Please don't take any of these ideas as more than they are and I hope that Jan will be able to reassure us on all of them, they are just what concerned me and led me to suggest a reproduction.  I know that Dixie Gunworks used to sell a reasonable reproduction and I am sure that other companies have done so to.  The Dixie example is quite close in style to this one but not identical.

 

Here's hoping for a positive response from Jan and from your gunsmith as regards the shootability of it.

 

All the best.

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Geraint,

Thanks very much for the input! I'm of the same opinion that regardless of original or not, the stock has been refinished. It really reminds me of the kind of finish most Mosin Nagant rifles got after the war, a kind of patchy shellack look to it.
The pan cover appears to be the same metal as the rest of the pan.

The barrel protector is indeed brass (if you mean the band just forward of the pan wrapping the barrel and stock) and is somewhat loose.
The pan has been fired (the gentleman I bought it from has confirmed that he had been shooting this previously) and the match holder shows signs of patina from firing as well.

 

One of the first things I did when I was looking at buying it was  to compare it to the dixie gunworks reproduction as the previous owner didn't know if it was an original or reproduction either and I came to the same conclusion that it doesn't appear to be that particular one if it is indeed a reproduction. I don't know of any other companies that ever made them, which is why it then felt to me like it could have possibly been an original. That said, it could also have been a custom build from a parts kit or from the dixie kit but modified. Entirely unsure.

 

Even if it does turn out to be a reproduction, I'm still thrilled with it as I got it for a steal being as Dixie was selling them for over a grand.

 

The barrel inside diameter is 12.25mm on my digital calipers

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After seing the new pictures I’m leaning towards the fact that the stock has been refitted with some new brass work, withvtge possibility of the entire stock being new. The brass protector on the butt looks quite badly made. The brass around the mekugi pins looks very new with sharp edges.

Still can’t find any major flaws with the barrel and the lock. The pan looks brand new, which in itself is not unique if the matchlock was made during the latter stages of the Edo period. This also goes for the shiny metal of the bisen-screw etc. I must admit that the bisen-screw looks brand new, which might point to it being replaced.

Not having any hands-on experience with reproduction matchlocks, it’s hard to be too certain in this case. Parts of it looks genuine but I guess you need to inspect it ”in hand” to be 100%.

Nevertheless a puzzling matchlock to say the least.

 

Jan

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