Nice Kozuka with kogatana

[Leatherdog]

Hi all,

 

Just received a nicely mounted mumei wakizashi I purchased, and am hoping someone can find the time to translate the kogatana for me. All help, as always, is much appreciated!

[Leatherdog]

More pics

[Guest reinhard]

At first sight and without checking books:

 

"Noshu Seki (no) Magoroku go dai ? ? ? Fujiwara KANEMOTO kore o saku"

 

Fujiwara KANEMOTO, 5th descendant of Seki (no) Magoroku, made this.

 

In most cases, these inscriptions on kogatana blades are merely decorative and no real signatures.

 

reinhard

[Leatherdog]

Thank you Reinhard.

 

In most cases, these inscriptions on kogatana blades are merely decorative and no real signatures.

 

So you are saying that it is a bit unusual that this one is signed, or that the signature shouldn't be taken seriously?

 

5th generation Kanemoto would place this in the 1st half of the 1600s, correct?

[Nobody]

Noshu Seki (no) Magoroku kyu-dai sue Zenjo Fujiwara Kanemoto kore o tsukuru

濃洲関孫六 ä¹ä»£æœ« 善定藤原兼元作之

 

I also read the generation as 5th at first, but it seems to be 9th judging from other information.

[Leatherdog]

Thank you as well, Moriyama-san.

 

What does this indicate about the period of manufacture? I'm assuming the kogatana blade really tells us nothing about the rest of the koshirae, as a blade from any period could be inserted into a new kozuka...unfortunately none of the other pieces are signed. It's a nice set with a sakura theme; matching kozuka, fuchi/kashira, tsuba, and menuki.

 

Is it common for kozuka to have ware, or is the one in mine indicative of a "tired" or poorly made blade?

[Leatherdog]

...the rest of it.

[Nobody]

What does this indicate about the period of manufacture? I'm assuming the kogatana blade really tells us nothing about the rest of the koshirae, as a blade from any period could be inserted into a new kozuka...unfortunately none of the other pieces are signed. It's a nice set with a sakura theme; matching kozuka, fuchi/kashira, tsuba, and menuki.

As for the kogatana, Zenjo Fujiwara Kanemoto seems to have been working in the first half of 1800s.

[Guest reinhard]

So you are saying that it is a bit unusual that this one is signed, or that the signature shouldn't be taken seriously?

 

Signatures on kogatana blades should not be taken too seriously in general. Though many famous names are found on them, most of these masters did not have the time nor the ambition to work on decorative blades like these. Drifting into speculation, I guess some of them were made by co-workers as a side-job; some of them were made by agreement by other smiths specialized on these kind of blades.

 

reinhard

[nagamaki - Franco]

What does this indicate about the period of manufacture? I'm assuming the kogatana blade really tells us nothing about the rest of the koshirae, as a blade from any period could be inserted into a new kozuka...unfortunately none of the other pieces are signed. It's a nice set with a sakura theme; matching kozuka, fuchi/kashira, tsuba, and menuki.

As for the kogatana, Zenjo Fujiwara Kanemoto seems to have been working in the first half of 1800s.

 

1800's seems about right for period of manufacture for this koshirae, too. A kizu in the kogatana is untypical.

[Brian]

It is widely accepted that the signatures on kogatana are usually symbolic, but obviously some are genuine, and I was just wondering if anyone has ever seen a kogatana (not kozuka) receive official papers to a smith?

I doubt it..which is why I expect that one will never know if a signature is genuine or not.

 

Brian

[Nobody]

It is widely accepted that the signatures on kogatana are usually symbolic, but obviously some are genuine, and I was just wondering if anyone has ever seen a kogatana (not kozuka) receive official papers to a smith?

I doubt it..which is why I expect that one will never know if a signature is genuine or not.

Kiyomaro

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/hpbs%2 ... yomaro.htm

[Brian]

Thank Moriyama san,

When I wrote "I doubt it.." I knew that there would be exceptions, as always in this field

Very nice indeed. And at least a lot less to polish :lol:

 

Brian

[Leatherdog]

A kizu in the kogatana is untypical

 

...so, probably not a very "good" kogatana? I really like the rest of the koshirae, though.

 

Thanks for the assistance everyone!

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

So you are saying that it is a bit unusual that this one is signed, or that the signature shouldn't be taken seriously?

 

Signatures on kogatana blades should not be taken too seriously in general. Though many famous names are found on them, most of these masters did not have the time nor the ambition to work on decorative blades like these. Drifting into speculation, I guess some of them were made by co-workers as a side-job; some of them were made by agreement by other smiths specialized on these kind of blades.

 

reinhard

 

Many swordsmiths made kogatana as others blades, a book named Shinto Shokan Yoroku, and written in the 19th century lists around 30 kogatana signed by smiths like Sukehiro, Masatoshi, Yoshimichi, Umetada, Kanewaka, Tadatsuna etc....

[John A Stuart]

Hi All, I have a kogatana made by Kamibayashi Tsunehira that was entered into a swordmakng competition. He is a mukansa smith so someone takes them as serious swords. John

[Guest reinhard]

There are very few kogatana blades predating ShinSakuTo worth talking about. Apart from the one by KIYOMARO mentioned by Moriyama-san, there is another by KOTETSU as well (Shinto Taikan, vol.I, p.30). The vast majority however is not worth investigating any further. While the hada is usually muji-fu and the hamon very simple and pittoresque, the mei is very different from the ones found on swords. As I said, this is very speculative, but it seems unlikely, that masters like Tsuta SUKEHIRO, Inoue SHINKAI and KOTETSU (whose swords costed a fortune during their lifetime already) worked on kogatana blades personally. Nevertheless it seems possible to me, that less prominent kaji, struggling for maintenance, made kogatana blades as a side-job.

 

Jacques,

Just being signed, this doesn't mean they were actually made by these smiths. Tsuta SUKEHIRO is recorded to have made 1'620 swords in 25 years (5+ per month!). It is hard to imagine he spent his spare time by producing tiny, merely decorative blades.

 

Tyler,

This kogatana is perfectly allright. Most of them rusted away by now for obvious reasons and yours seems to be in pretty nice condition. There's not much sense in investigating any further. Just enjoy it for what it is now.

 

John,

Many contemporary kaji make kogatana blades as a side job. Amongst them some very well established masters. Their life settings however cannot be compared with those of smiths during Edo-period.

 

I wrote this because: Kogatana blades were neglected by NihonTo scholars for a reason. There's not much to say about them. Giving them a status they don't deserve and starting investigations where there's nothing to investigate, the board will soon be flooded by requests concerning the authenticity of kogatana blades and the copying industry will gladly find a new field of activity.

 

reinhard

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

We know kotetsu made at least one kogatana (and kozuka), why not more?

 

 

About Tsuda Sukehiro below an example of a kogatana (the mei looks very like his one).

 

[Stever]

Interesting. This makes me wonder about mei on other small items. If we follow Reinhard's logic, would this also make mei on yajiri suspect? If not, why not?

 

cheers,

/steve

[Brian]

While I do partly agree with Reinhard, I do think that some smiths took the time to make good kogatana.

This is evidenced by the fact that although the majority of kozuka are not folded, some are.

Think about it. The kozuka was a general purpose knife that was meant for everyday use. So why not just hammer one out steel, and harden the whole blade and then sharpen it, similar to today's pocket knives?

Instead, some are clearly made from tamahagane, and the smith took the time to add a picturesque hamon, complete with hada and in some cases hataraki. This in itself means that they regarded them as a step above just a common knife blade.

I think that either a smith making a sword, or the koshirae builder who contracted out the kozuka probably had enough pride in his work to add something that wasn't sub-standard.

I have one that has a beautiful hada and hamon, with nice nie. Now as far as adding gimei signatures goes, I am sure the vast majority are indeed fake. But logic says that many might have been made by students as part of their training, and I am sure smiths made many too. We can't know for sure. The amount of fine work out there indicates that not all are low class. They may be considered of lesser importance, and I think the signatures are not a reliable indicator, but that doesn't mean they can't be very well made and worthy of attention. One only has to browse the Japanese dealer sites to see that they still fetch high prices, and are put into shirasaya.

 

Brian

[Jacques D.]

Sorry for off topic:

 

Jacques,

Just being signed, this doesn't mean they were actually made by these smiths. Tsuta SUKEHIRO is recorded to have made 1'620 swords in 25 years (5+ per month!). It is hard to imagine he spent his spare time by producing tiny, merely decorative blades.

 

Quote Fujishiro shinto volume:

 

It is said that the reason that there are a lot of works by the teacher Tsuda Sukehiro and only a few by his pupils is that the mei were peened and changed to Sukehiro, but I think that the principle origin of this was because that about the time they became skilled, this industry was in the decline, and unless they had quite a bit of ability, they were not able to continue to make a living as a swordsmith. [TN]

[Guest reinhard]

Hello Moriyama-san,

 

Going through my books, I noticed a gap between yondai Magoroku and Zenjo Fujiwara KANEMOTO (9th generation) you mentioned. There must have been 4 generations in between, which are poorly documented. Do you think it is possible, that the 5th generation KANEMOTO was named Zenjo already?

 

Just for fun: Here is a kogatana-mei by Tashiro Genichi KANEMOTO, who is supposed to be the yondai. BTW: The hamon on the backside looks exactly like the one owned by Tyler.

 

reinhard

[Nobody]

reinhard,

 

I do not know if there was a Zenjo Fujiwara Kanemoto a.k.a. Magoroku 5th. But at least, there was one as Magoroku 9th. The attached picture shows a similar mei to Tyler’s. And "ä¹ä»£ (9th generation)" can be clearly identified.

 

Ref.

http://www4.ocn.ne.jp/~y-kimura/10-052.htm

https://www.aoi-art.com/auction/auction ... 1165718630

[Guest reinhard]

Moriyama-san,

 

Comparing your picture with Tyler's, I realized we made the same mistake at first. Taking kyu for go was due to the angle his pictures were taken from. They should have been made full frontal like yours. Domo arigato gozaimashita.

 

reinhard