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Collaboration blade?

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Greetings,

 

I'm new to the forum and have been following directions reading about nihonto and am ready to make a purchase. Saw this on an earlier post and was wondering why it was so reasonably priced?

http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/0710_2001syousai.htm

I like the simple hamon and the big o-kisaki. Looks clean and in good polish. Does anybody know what school is represented here or about the smiths? And what does it mean that it was a "collaboration"? Two smiths on the same blade? Is that unusual? Is this a worthwhile purchase from a reputable dealer? My budget is small but my desire great! All thoughts appreciated to initiate me into this sharp new world.

 

Stay Strong,

Jeff

------------------

So much to do. So little time. So little money.

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Jeff,

 

I was considering that blade as well because of the price point but was gently steered away from it by more experienced collectors here. I think Jean mentioned hiraji ware, though I cannot see it, and he may have been refering to another sword in the group that I solicited advice on. On the other hand, the one constant that was stressed to me is that if you like it, and can afford it buy it, but it pays to be patient if you are not sure.

 

More experienced voices need to guide you and answer your other questions.

 

Best,

Bobby

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Since no one else has, I'll answer the question about collaboration. Yes, 2 smiths worked on and signed the blade. It could be that one did the forging and the other did the tempering, or that each smith tempered one side (least that's my understanding). This wasn't a common practice, but I wouldn't call it rare either.

Grey

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I'd agree with Grey that they are uncommon, however there were some collaborations that were more common than others it seems. I've seen three collaboration works (Gassaku) by Yoshimichi school smiths. Also there is Bizen Katsumitsu and Bizen Munemitsu that are well documented with several gassaku blades by them.

 

I guess that makes those uncommonly more common? Commonly uncommon? :)

 

The variables of who did what in the process can be left to speculation, but as I understand it the common procedure is one forged the blade the other heat treated it. I remember seeing one sword signed as one smith forged and another did the yakiire (quench). Didn't say who put the clay on though, so I'm guessing it was the latter.

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Here's my own (supposed) collaboration wakizashi. Tanba (no) kami Yoshimichi and Yamato (no) kami Yoshimichi. Blade isn't in a good enough polish to verify the details, but my research leads me to believe that it is gimei on both counts. Maybe someone has some further info.

I guess a double gimei is much harder, but obviously the temptation is greater to pass it off as a work by both smiths. The look of the nakago leads me to believe that if gimei, it isn't a modern gimei though. Some of the strokes, particularly in the michi kanji, seem to go the wrong way too?

 

Brian

tang3.jpg

tang2.jpg

tang1.jpg

tang.jpg

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Brian,

 

Yes, there do appear to be a lot of inconsistancies in the mei. The condition of the nakago looks a bit more deteriorated than I would expect for the age of the sword too. Perhaps a bit contrived adding to the deception? Look at the crispness of the nakagoana edges and walls which don't really evoke the same deterioration level to me. The work in the blade is the important factor though. Gimei can be remedied with proper and judicious removal. If the shape and condition look like it might have some promise, have a window put in it and see what it has to offer. Might be something better, who knows. :dunno:

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" Here's my own (supposed) collaboration wakizashi. Tanba (no) kami Yoshimichi and Yamato (no) kami Yoshimichi. Blade isn't in a good enough polish to verify the details, but my research leads me to believe that it is gimei on both counts. Maybe someone has some further info. "

 

 

well, someone from NBTHK did have further info and passed it........ unless my gin tonic is doing a number on me, isn't the initial link to this sword led us to a page in Japan that shows the origami ?

 

 

milt the confused

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Hi Milt,

 

No..I was posting pics of my own sword that is signed by 2 smiths as an example of collaboration swords.

Mine has no papers, and I think it is gimei..but was using it as an example of these dual-signatures we are talking about. It has no relation to the original sword in the post.

 

Brian

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arhhhhhhh, in other words, you hijacked the thread.......naughty boy.

You have me worried for a while about the gin tonic :rant: :phew:

p.s., your double gimei is nothing compare to mine.............. how about 2 mei separated by app. 200 years ? now that's a double to behold !!

milt

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I can get away with the hijack because the original post had this in it:

Two smiths on the same blade? Is that unusual?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

 

As for yours..well...they lived a lot longer back in those days without food additives and cellphone radiation. :lol: :D (kidding)

 

Brian

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Brian wrote :

As for yours..well...they lived a lot longer back in those days without food additives and cellphone radiation.

 

and gin tonic ... ;) ;)

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