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First Japanese Sword 1883 Navel Sword


Martin P

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I am likely wrong, but I always consider blades like that to be German made. After Franco-Prussian war Japan was all over the German weapons and war strategy. Before that maybe there was a French influence? Nice looking piece! I especially love the naval dirks, probably because I have one that is not bad and a forged and oil tempered (I am sure it’s oil but it does trick people it’s nice) blade. Jim dawson’s Book is the best reference for these, I believe. Grey Doffin (NMB Contributer) sells books for good prices, and is a nice guy (Brown noser award of century here). Grey we’ve met and you are a nice guy so there.

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That's quite gorgeous Martin! Seems custom made. Dawson points out that there was a multitude of variations of this model. What is that on the guard, that I circled? Is it a stamp or just a smudge? If stamp - is it something you can clean so we can see what it is?

 

Grant, didn't the Germans stamp their blades with "Solengen" or something similar?

post-3487-0-84554400-1541097822_thumb.jpg

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I had purchased the Fuller and Gregory book. I had learned some, but still not sure as I read one thing then I read something else that in my mind conflicts with that. What I can tell is the blade is machine made, most of the gilt is there. The seller said it was a seven leaf, but I count nine, unless I am counting wrong. Also I read something about the higher ranks having bigger nobs on the ray handle, but it is normal on mine. 

 

I was thinking it was after 1914 with it being a machine blade and because I read about the smaller swords starting in 1914. This looks like a very small sword to me. I have read one thing that said Navy knots are the same through the ranks and another saying they are different fro the ranks.

 

I also read through this, but maybe I am just dense.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/17713-imperial-Japanese-navy-sword-knot/

 

Can anyone educate me more on this sword and sword knot?

 

GGil, I have seen Grey's posts and although good prices for what they are, at this current point I have spent my wad for a bit.

 

Thanks

Martin

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That's quite gorgeous Martin! Seems custom made. Dawson points out that there was a multitude of variations of this model. What is that on the guard, that I circled? Is it a stamp or just a smudge? If stamp - is it something you can clean so we can see what it is?

 

Grant, didn't the Germans stamp their blades with "Solengen" or something similar?

Hi Bruce,

 

Good eye. I don't know I will look tonight.

 

Solingen is a manufacture, but not the only one. I know during a point they made some of the US Army 1902 swords. Also Eickhorn

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Dear Bruce, I am dumb for posting above, and in general. Truth is that I don’t know. To me, the era is one that Japan was probably always loath to forget, probably even right in the midst for most. Imulating others and disregarding their own beautiful traditions. I have seen just a couple with German stamps, but always thought of the blades that are shaped thusly to be German, but probably just the design and they were made in Japan. I don’t know. I’m sure you forgot how full a crap I am since I haven’t posted for a year or 2.

 

Dear Martin,I have the Dawson’s book and want to unload it so just give me an offer. I’ll sell it for $80 but just give me an offer if you want it. The shape of your blade isn’t German as it has a kissaki and shinogi zurkuri shape but too thin. I didn’t look at the picture very well. I agree probably machine made in Japan. Is it oil hamon or etched? Most were etched. Pretty cool anyhow.

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HI Grant,

 

Yes I would be all over that offer of Dawson's book. Just give me a couple weeks to refill my "tool" fund. Got to keep the wife happy.

 

Yes I was surprised by how skinny the blade is. Yes I agree it looks to me to be machine made.

 

Thanks

Martin

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I am likely wrong, but I always consider blades like that to be German made. After Franco-Prussian war Japan was all over the German weapons and war strategy. Before that maybe there was a French influence? Nice looking piece! I especially love the naval dirks, probably because I have one that is not bad and a forged and oil tempered (I am sure it’s oil but it does trick people it’s nice) blade. Jim dawson’s Book is the best reference for these, I believe. Grey Doffin (NMB Contributer) sells books for good prices, and is a nice guy (Brown noser award of century here). Grey we’ve met and you are a nice guy so there.

Can confirm Grey does sell the book. I bought a copy and it arrived in the UK safe and sound having been very nicely packaged.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I arrive late to the battle.

 

It is the parade version of the 1883 Navy sword. The blade could be either German, Japanese but made with overseas steel or Japanese made with non traditional steel. It is most likely nickel plated. The combat version of this sword is the Navy kyu gunto.

 

Solingen is not a manufacture, but a city where there used to be a few weapons manufactures. The most famous still in activity is WKC, whose famous stamp in the 1900's was the Ritterhelm, aka Knight's helm.

 

Actually the first Naval sword, if I remember correctly, is from 1877 and its handle has no back strap.

 

Cheers

 

Thibault

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Thibault,

 

Thank you for the information and the correction. I much rather know than be ignorant and pass bad info.

 

The shark skin is split on I am assuming the seem. Is there anything I should do to protect it like an natural oil to keep it from drying out? Or should I just leave it the way it is?

 

Thanks

Martin

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The seam is natural and nothing needs be done to it. It’s made it 100 years so far. Handle it with gloves to keep your juices off it, it will last a hundred more probably. I keep mine inside a safe with desiccant inside. You put something on it you will probably regret it, and around here you don’t want to be known as the tsuka greaser. Or worse: the grip Oiler; The handle fluffer. Just kidding, but seriously if you want it restored so it preserves better then maybe consulting a museum or privately contacting a professional would be best. If I was a professional I wouldn’t publish methods on a public forum for reasons.

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LOL,

 

I think it is in good shape overall and just wanted to preserve vs restore. Good Idea about wear gloves. Should have thought of that. My firearms I just wipe down. I currently keep it and my Marine NCO sword in the safe, I want to put them where I can enjoy them on the wall out of the sun, but I also want to protect them. Kind of a conundrum.

 

Martin

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The shark skin on the scabbard is lacquered, and, I am not mistaken, the lacquer is cracked along the seam. It is rather common, and due to différences in temperature. There is nothing you can do about it, no treatment possible of the skin, because it is lacquered.

 

Do not worry, shark skin is very tough, and even tougher when lacquered. It is just a bit old!

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