1St Tanto

[Blazeaglory]

No I won't be using this to stab anything... although I was considering trying to bring back the Tanto for EDC instead of my folding knife????????

 

The blade itself is decent condition said to be later Muromachi. Nagasa is about 19cm (7.5 inches roughly). Looks to be Itame Hada somewhat tight with Jinie but looking a tad bit tired. Nie Deki Ko-Gunome Midare hamon

 

Cool thing is the Menuki seem to be gold with the brownish/red paint (or whatever 'finish' they liked to put on gold for some reason back then). The area's where it's rubbing off the gold is nice and shiny. Looks to be a lion dog or similar? Flowers or maybe a turtle with a tail? Menuki on other side.

 

The tsuba is copper with some pretty nice Chrysanthemum carvings.

 

The fuchi and kashira are, what I thought too be silver but I think is Shibuichi. Same with the Kozuka.

 

Family Mon is all over and I think from Kaishu Katsu family (pretty interesting if so)

 

Well may be not thee greatest blade but I really like it and I'll put these pics here for posterity and those who wish to enjoy!

 

D

[Brian]

You are missing a shot or 2 of the whole tanto, showing the shape and overall blade. Also one without the fittings. Looks healthy and ok to me.

[TETSUGENDO]

Looking good from what can be seen, nice koshirae but Yes, need more picks please.

 

-S-

[Shugyosha]

Nice fittings Dwain!!

[Guest]

Hi Dwain.,

 

I think your Kamon is called Maru ni Shiho Ken Hanabishi 丸に四方剣花菱.

 

Well done. 

 

[Stephen]

So far so good. Like others we want to see the heart of matter. Looks like a beefy blade. Agree nice fittings with a ? mark on the tsuba. Did you add that?

[Blazeaglory]

Everything is as it came. I'm a little hesitant to remove it frm the tsuka but I'll 'carefully' take more pics later.

 

Also I have another thread "3 hole Muromachi" with pics from AOI art. It's got filled holes covering the Mei. Last character is "sada". So I don't know if this is a late Muromachi mass production or maybe something different? Could this be from the Sue-Nio Den? They say there was a "Kiyosada" who signed with a 2 character Mei around that time. The Mekugi

Ana is chiseled and over the Mei. Mei also looks and feels worn with the nakago. Maybe top hole was made for shirasaya? Dunno but looks pretty old

 

Stephen, here's a better pic of fittings and tsuba. No signature unfortunately

 

Anyways, thanks for the kind words. This hobby and title as caretaker is amazing!

 

D

[TETSUGENDO]

Dwain,

 

Those really help, blade looks Good, your off to a great start!  Are the F/K and K silver or shibuichi?  

 

-S-

p.s.-interesting saya.

[vajo]

Well done Dwain, looks really nice.

[Brian]

Nice indeed!
And don't be scared. These things were made to be taken apart. Take it slow, it is not difficult. Don't force anything.

[Blazeaglory]

Dwain,

 

Those really help, blade looks Good, your off to a great start! Are the F/K and K silver or shibuichi?

 

-S-

p.s.-interesting saya.

Could be silver but I'm leaning towards a higher end Shibuichi. I can see hints of gold in there as well. Compared to actual 99% silver I have it looks very close but in the f/k/k I see slight difference in colors but it looks to be majority silver. Someone put a little thought into the Koshirae

 

The only green/blue discoloration that you usually see with copper or brass fittings isn't on anything but some small areas on the tsuba.

 

The blade is nice but in person up close there is some pitting and minor ware. Looks like the very tip/point was either thrust into something or dropped but didn't break. It just kinda bent/deformed in the tiniest bit down. The hada is there but looks either tight or tired (or both). Looks like it had some polishes in its lifetime!

 

After work later I'll setup an area and take it apart to try and get some detailed pics of the nakago

[Stephen]

Really nice piece! love it all but for some reason the tsuba doesn't go with the flow MHO. bet a dollar to a donut Tsuruta san swapped it out and slapped that on, down the line when your more comfortable with the process if you feel the same way many ppl here to help with that if you so desire,

i know id be glad too. 

[Blazeaglory]

Really nice piece! love it all but for some reason the tsuba doesn't go with the flow MHO. bet a dollar to a donut Tsuruta san swapped it out and slapped that on, down the line when your more comfortable with the process if you feel the same way many ppl here to help with that if you so desire,

i know id be glad too.

Interesting you say that because I'm kinda on the fence about this tsuba as well. I like the craftsmanship but not for this tanto. I do think it's (possibly) original because what I thought was a lead spacer tested for silver, so whoever made this, or had it made, didn't want any low grade material it seems.

 

I've been examining it for just the reasons you brought up and I also found where the Kozuka fits through the hole, it rests on the inside edge and that edge is worn down fitting the exact shape of the Kozuka.

 

I agree tho that the tsuba seems to be out of place. It keeps me wondering what was going through the person's head when they had it put on. Like what symbolism or meaning it had to them.

 

Side note... The kogatana blade has the AOI or Tokugowa family Mon on it. So maybe the chrysanthimums have something to do with showing loyalty to the shogun? Or demonstrating his samurai past with loyalty to the emperor? Who knows but I'm still 50/50 on its origins as well.

 

And thanks for the heads up about the other Tsuba! I'm always interested in seeing what works or not????

 

D

[Blazeaglory]

Could this tanto possibly be Sue-Nio Kiyosada?

[Guest]

Hi Dwain,

 

The Chrysanthemum is not necessarily an Imperial symbol, since the Bakumatsu, Kamon have become a strange area with many side streets and alleyways ever ready to confuse.

 

The Chrysanthemum with 16 petals and sixteen behind is known as Kiku Kamon 菊花紋 and is/was the symbol used by the Emperor and the Imperial Family.

 

Sword dealers in the past were known to add items of decoration to embellish the status of their products.

 

So, I guess it's a case of  "Count your petals".

 

Cheers

 

[Blazeaglory]

Hi Dwain,

 

The Chrysanthemum is not necessarily an Imperial symbol, since the Bakumatsu, Kamon have become a strange area with many side streets and alleyways ever ready to confuse.

 

The Chrysanthemum with 16 petals and sixteen behind is known as Kiku Kamon 菊花紋 and is/was the symbol used by the Emperor and the Imperial Family.

 

Sword dealers in the past were known to add items of decoration to embellish the status of their products.

 

So, I guess it's a case of  "Count your petals".

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Very good

 

And I think on first count there are 16 petals on this tsuba. Great info! Thanks

[SteveM]

I think your Kamon is called Maru ni Shiho Ken Hanabishi 丸に四方剣花菱.

 

It could be 丸に釼花菱 (maru ni tsurugi hanabishi), which feels to me like it suits the one on this saya better. 

This is associated with many families and names in Japan, not just Kaishu. 

 

https://kamon.myoji-yurai.net/kamonDetail.htm?kamonName=%E4%B8%B8%E3%81%AB%E5%89%A3%E8%8A%B1%E8%8F%B1

[Blazeaglory]

It could be 丸に釼花菱 (maru ni tsurugi hanabishi), which feels to me like it suits the one on this saya better.

This is associated with many families and names in Japan, not just Kaishu.

 

https://kamon.myoji-yurai.net/kamonDetail.htm?kamonName=%E4%B8%B8%E3%81%AB%E5%89%A3%E8%8A%B1%E8%8F%B1

Yes that is definitely it! Thank you for that website. So much good info!

 

Side note, for the tsuba, the petals on the chrysanthimums alternate one after the other from 14 to 15. Any significance to that?

 

D

[DavidF]

Dwain,

 

Such a beautiful blade is a great way to start off in the hobby (or should I say "addiction").  You can learn more from a few wise purchases is better than a hundred mistakes.  And it looks like you're off to a great start.

 

David.

[SteveM]

Side note, for the tsuba, the petals on the chrysanthemums alternate one after the other from 14 to 15. Any significance to that?

 

No, but don't let that detract or distract you from the enjoyment of the piece. Chrysanthemums are a common theme. Yours may well be a later addition. I don't think you should read any imperial connection into it. 

[Blazeaglory]

Thanks everyone!