Help With Kogatana Mei

[Blazeaglory]

Ok I know I butchered this but first try. Looks like a Tokugowa (AOI?) Mon on top and rest is hard to make out.

 

I left out the AOI and tried to reproduce what I see in person but I'm sure it's not even close. Kudos to anyone who can translate what I copied or can see in the pic through the rust.

 

Thanks in advance

 

D

 

EDIT:Photos are upright in my folder but when I upload them they show sideways. If someone could fix?

[TETSUGENDO]

 There you go.

[Blazeaglory]

2018-10-17%20110728.jpg There you go.

Thanks. No matter what I did I couldn't get them upright. Other photos are posting fine.

[Blazeaglory]

Did I really translate that bad? Lol

 

I understand that kogatana Mei are a debatable subject but this one came with an unusual Koshirae, plus it has the hollyhock. Really I'm just hoping it has an area or school in the sig

 

Thanks

[Surfson]

I am guessing a poor attempt at nagasone okisato kotetsu

[Blazeaglory]

I am guessing a poor attempt at nagasone okisato kotetsu

Thanks ill check it out but from what I read so far the characters don't look the same

 

Also, I don't know if you or anyone else clicked on photo as It's much clearer and can zoom in, although from here it looks like it's impossible to read.

 

The blade is surprisingly well made and the rust is only surface I'm finding out and is slowly coming off to reveal some clean metal!

[mywei]

I think Robert is correct

 

長曽祢虎徹 Nagasone Kotetsu (some characters appear to be in older forms)

[Blazeaglory]

I think Robert is correct

 

長曽祢虎徹 Nagasone Kotetsu (some characters appear to be in older forms)

Ahh I see. Thank you!

 

That would be pretty amazing if it was actually forged by him.

[ROKUJURO]

....That would be pretty amazing if it was actually forged by him.

Yes, indeed! But chances are better that you win the National lottery the next three times in a row....

[Blazeaglory]

Yes, indeed! But chances are better that you win the National lottery the next three times in a row....

Haha, Yah you're probably right although the Koshirae this is a part of has some quality pieces

 

The fittings are all solid gold and silver, as well as a silver Kozuka for this kogatana.

[Brian]

The fittings are all solid gold and silver, as well as a silver Kozuka for this kogatana.

I seriously doubt that?

[Greg F]

I also doubt that they are solid gold but either way pics would be good.

 

Greg

[Blazeaglory]

I seriously doubt that?

The menuki tested for at least 22kt. Also, when I say silver, I mean possibly Shibuichi but it looks fairly high in silver content . If you look in pic you can see where the blade meets the fitting, there is scraping down into the "meat" of the Kozuka. Total length with blade is 8.5 inches lol

 

Second pic of the fuchi looks much better in person and is aging like silver.

 

Im not trying to brag or boast, just trying to share info. They are in the "1st Tanto" thread in Nihonto if you want to take a look. Ill send you pics of testing via PM and you can make up your own mind.

[Blazeaglory]

I also doubt that they are solid gold but either way pics would be good.

 

Greg

Why would you doubt that? I mean I understand that every newb comes in here thinking they have God's greatest sword but I've seen multiple sales online for nihonto with gold fittings. I honestly didn't know they were rare (are they?)

 

Anyways, not trying to sound like a jerk, and thanks everyone for the info. Im not going to go into detail about this anymore in this thread but if anyone wants to chat, send a PM.

 

D

[Surfson]

The fuchi looks to be solid silver to my eye.  The nanako is also very good on it. 

[Greg F]

Dwain im not meaning to be rude or anything and compared to other members with less posts as me im a newb too. Its just solid gold fittings seem very rare to me (i could very well be wrong) as off the top of my head the only solid gold I remember is habaki. I would love to be wrong. If they are it would be really cool to see so I for one would like to see pics. I dont think you sound like a jerk, ive seen plenty of gold fittings too but solid sounds like a stretch is all.

 

Greg

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

Additional images of all fittings, if possible, would be very helpful to the discussion including the inside of the fuchi.

 

Thank you.

[Brian]

Solid gold was beyond rare, and seldom used. Sometimes by the Goto school etc, but far more likely to have gold foil over base metal.
Not to say they aren't, but when you see gold, you assume foil and not solid. Still, the menuki are possible. Fuchi/kashira would be rare to be solid silver, but again it is possible.
Ford would be the one to clarify here.

[John A Stuart]

I have a handachi koshirae fitted in rogin, a very high silver content alloy, which could be considered as being solid silver. It has darkened from age as silver tends. John

[Blazeaglory]

Dwain im not meaning to be rude or anything and compared to other members with less posts as me im a newb too. Its just solid gold fittings seem very rare to me (i could very well be wrong) as off the top of my head the only solid gold I remember is habaki. I would love to be wrong. If they are it would be really cool to see so I for one would like to see pics. I dont think you sound like a jerk, ive seen plenty of gold fittings too but solid sounds like a stretch is all.

 

Greg

No I get it. When people hear others claiming things such as this, they tend to disbelieve. I myself get caught up in that as well.

 

Prior to sword collecting I was and am a precious metals collector. I made a fortune sniffing out (literally) silver items from yard sales and goodwill(until they hired better managers and decided to send the good stuff to online sales). But anyways I have a good eye for gold and silver. Plus I have multiple test kits.

 

AOI Japan stated they were gold also. I tested the menuki to 22kt and it didn't dissolve so I'm guessing 24kt. I mean it does happen.

 

I found a giant silver serving plate that was at a garage sale one time. I told the poor old woman I'd pay her much more than she was asking. She looked at me and laughed and said "why would you pay that much for fake silver?".. well long story short a "fake" $20 serving plate turned out to be antique sterling and sold for over $1000. Her brain wouldn't let her believe that such a giant plate could actually be silver.

 

But like I said, I don't want to get caught up on the debate of "it is or isn't". I know aged silver when I see it and once you know gold, you know gold. But tests help.

 

Also, I tried getting the fuchi off but it won't come past the top. I did find out that the bronze ring underneath isn't attached and is a seperate piece. Plus if you know silver you can tell by just looking at the black top. I'm sure the bottom looks the same.

 

Does any of this change the opinion on the kogatana I wonder? And please mods feel free to close this thread. I think it's beginning to get a little off topic. If anyone has questions pleas PM me.

[Blazeaglory]

Solid gold was beyond rare, and seldom used. Sometimes by the Goto school etc, but far more likely to have gold foil over base metal.

Not to say they aren't, but when you see gold, you assume foil and not solid. Still, the menuki are possible. Fuchi/kashira would be rare to be solid silver, but again it is possible.

Ford would be the one to clarify here.

No foil here. They have brownish/red paint that is coming off from the exposed areas, which is where I tested from. I started at 10kt and worked up to 22kt. None of them could dissolve so it's at least 22kt. They could be hollow behind so when I say "solid" I'm referring to content of gold

 

The f/k/k are definitely silver or at least very high in content. No green blue discoloration anywhere and they are turning black with silver patina.

 

You must remember this is a 7.5 inch tanto with a really small tsuka. The f/k and menuki are really small. The Kozuka is quite large tho but all other fittings are pretty small so I could see a well off samurai paying to have these fittings put on with his family crest.

 

To me it's not really odd considering what I've seen rich people from antiquity spend their money on.

 

Take care Brian!

 

D

 

EDIT:Ruler in pic is closer than tsuka, so makes it look bigger. It's even smaller in person

[TETSUGENDO]

Put away the Orbuculum, all this scrying will not provlde a definitive answer.  The sellers attestation, and owners examination, should suffice in this matter.  Afterall, the item in question was purchased from a dealer that stands behind their merchandise , one well known to and used by many members of this site. He did not buy this piece from ebay or the  like......time to remove the collective fingers from his side.

 

-S-

[Greg F]

Dwain I didnt know you meant only menuki, that isnt too hard to believe. A friend emailed me a beautiful pair of gold menuki last night this had me drooling. For some reason I pictured other fitting being gold as well. Anyway your koshirae looks nice.

 

Greg

[DavidF]

Why would you doubt that? I mean I understand that every newb comes in here thinking they have God's greatest sword but I've seen multiple sales online for nihonto with gold fittings. I honestly didn't know they were rare (are they?)

 

Anyways, not trying to sound like a jerk, and thanks everyone for the info. Im not going to go into detail about this anymore in this thread but if anyone wants to chat, send a PM.

 

D

Yes, it is true that "every newb comes in here thinking they have God's greatest sword", but on occasion newbs do stumble upon great swords.  I know because it happened to me.

 

I doubt that this guy's sword is legit.  And even if legit doesn't mean it's valuable.

 

But sometimes, just sometimes, snow does fall in June.

 

David.

[Blazeaglory]

Dwain I didnt know you meant only menuki, that isnt too hard to believe. A friend emailed me a beautiful pair of gold menuki last night this had me drooling. For some reason I pictured other fitting being gold as well. Anyway your koshirae looks nice.

 

Greg

Thanks! Yah just menuki. Fairly small as well

[Blazeaglory]

Yes, it is true that "every newb comes in here thinking they have God's greatest sword", but on occasion newbs do stumble upon great swords. I know because it happened to me.

 

I doubt that this guy's sword is legit. And even if legit doesn't mean it's valuable.

 

But sometimes, just sometimes, snow does fall in June.

 

David.

Yah who knows. I was just hoping to narrow down an area but now that I think about it, the kogatana would more than likely be same era as Koshirae and not tanto. So I had a brain fart haha

[Blazeaglory]

Put away the Orbuculum, all this scrying will not provlde a definitive answer. The sellers attestation, and owners examination, should suffice in this matter. Afterall, the item in question was purchased from a dealer that stands behind their merchandise , one well known to and used by many members of this site. He did not buy this piece from ebay or the like......time to remove the collective fingers from his side.

 

-S-

Well said my good man!

 

And don't you dare say bad things about "The Bay" lol every once in a millennia a diamond shines through the collective crap of eBay ... I found a 13th century Soshu den Wakazashi from eBay lol (yes I know there's many things wrong with that sentence)

[Blazeaglory]

Same blade but Mei is different (same but different)

 

https://wardmilitaria.com/products/kogatana-signed-nagasone-kotetsu-nidai-mei-okimasa-w-kao