Need Help For A Tanto

[thetouch]

Hello,

i don't know if i posted this topic in the correct place, so excuse me if i was wrong.

 

I came to ask your help about a Tanto i have for a long time.

I wanted to clean it and when i disassembled the tsuka, i saw some kanji on Nakago.

 

You can see them on pictures.

 

Well on one side we can see the kanji Genroku ni nen. It could mean it could be a blade from the second year of the genroku period so 1689.

On the other  side, 3 kanji could mean Matsu da. I don't know what it could be....a Mei?  i didn't find any swordsmith with this name.

There was a clan called matsuda but it was active 100 years before genroku period.

So i begin to think this is a copy with false kanji.

My knowledge is poor so i came to ask your help if you can find or share some informations or i you have the answer confirm me it s a false one or not.

Thanks  a lot.

 

 

[Ray Singer]

Chinese fake unfortunately. Your suspicions are correct.

[thetouch]

Chinese fake unfortunately. Your suspicions are correct.

Hi,

thanks for your answer.

It seems so easy for you to see it's a fake, it was so hard for me to find these different informations about kanji :-)

I was thinking it could be a fake, but how can you know it's chinese...damn i need more knowledge :-) 

Could you give me some details like the ones who show you this one is a fake please?

i would like to be able to recognise faster and better a fake next time if i had to find another " Japanese blade" please?

thanks again

[mywei]

I think it boils down to experience - once your eyes have seen many authentic swords, the fake ones will jump out.

 

Just the nakago alone gives this one away - funny patina and shape, inconsistent poor yasurime, the signature of only 'matsuda' which is unheard of let alone for a sword with a nengo of Genroku 2.

[thetouch]

 

Hi

 

Yes i agree again about the yasurime.

I need to study more and more about all of this.

Anyway, thanks for yours answers. It's great to receive some help.

Have a nice day.

[Jean]

Sabatier,

 

Here is a link where you can study at leisure the sugata of katana, wakizashi, tanto. It will ease your task to identify Chinese fakes.

 

https://www.aoijapan.com

 

Edit to add: buy one or two books

[thetouch]

We had few books and we made some research to try to understand the origin of this tanto.

But yes i will buy some others it s a good advice

, it s very pleasant to study how Japanese swordsmith were so talented and how they built katana which are nothing else than historic treasure.

Have a nice day

[Geraint]

Dear Sabatier.

 

To add some specifics: Photo 1, poor shape of the blade and tanto in this shape are always questionable, poor shape to the saya and tuska, clumsy fittings.  Photo 2, clumsy shaping and highly visible grain structure.  Photo 3, badly shaped nakago, poor file marks, rubbish end to the nakago, clumsy tsuba with signs of artifical ageing, the way the mei is cut.  Photo 4, just bad workmanship.  Photo 5, shape even worse, deep grind marks near the blade and uneven machi.  Photo 6, same as Photo 5.  Photo 7, poor lines to the habaki.  Photo 8, same as photos 1 and 7.

 

If you use these pointers with the link that Jean gave you then you will soon start to see the differences.

 

Don't give up, this is a fascinating field of study.

 

All the best.

[thetouch]

Thks a lot, really.

See you around

[takakage]

Hi,

 

Mr Sabatier, i understand  you are disapointed but

 

in spite of your friend can say,

 

http://www.passionmilitaria.com/t143947-information-et-identification-sur-un-tanto

 

I'm sorry but your blade is not genuine. Some of members of this forum are well known in the nihonto word.

 

Si vous souhaitez de la documentation sur le sabre japonais, je vous conseille les livres de Serge Degore et en particulier Nippon-to.

 

Regards.