Mei Translation Verification Please

[Navymate]

I am very excited as I was able to acquire my first sword recently. The members here have been very kind and generous with your knowledge on my previous requests, so I thought I would double check here and make sure my translation is correct. I have been researching it for a few weeks now and if I’m right then I will have some follow up questions from the research I’ve done. But for now I want to verify with others more knowledgeable than myself.

 

This is what I have:

Showa Jyu Ku Nen Hachi Gatsu Kichi Nichi

A lucky day in August 1944

 

Ryu Jin

Toto Ju Kuni Teru (?) Saku

Dragon King/God

Kuniteru made this in Tokyo

 

I have not been able to find much about Kuniteru other than this previous post:

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12933-yasukuni-swords-in-type-3-mounts/page-2

 

It starts on page 2, post 39 by EdO. He posted a similar Mei that showed Ikkansai Kuniteru and the kanji for Teru looked similar to this one. However the Kuni kanji on the nakago on the post has 2 vertical marks in the lower left hand, whereas the Kuni kanji on the blade I have, is 1 horizontal mark. I am a novice so I could be completely wrong, but there appears to be similarities in signing. The sword in the post is also named Ryu Jin.

 

Of note, there is also another Ryu Jin named sword I found online here:

http://www.samuraisword.com/nihontodisplay/Gendiato/Yasuhiro/index.htm

 

What do you think?

 

Thank you for your time and input.

Mark

[Geraint]

Dear Mark.

 

Whatever the outcome of research that's a nice sword!  Forgive me if what I say is obvious but you draw attention to a slight difference in the Kuni kanji so perhaps these thoughts might be in order.  The placement of the mei between the two examples is vastly different, one adjacent to the mune and one near the ha.  The nakago jiri are completely different, yours is distinctive and I would say better than the average showato.  There are other differences in the kanji, even the Kuni kanji has a distinct slope on the top right on one and not the other.

 

What all this means I don't know but if this was a mei from an earlier smith one would conclude that they are not the same maker. I have come across another instance where two shingunto were apparently by the same maker, Kanetomo from meory,  but the mei were rather different.  There was nothing to suggest that the mei was worth faking in this case so speculation is that variations in mei for most swords of this period are not that uncommon.   I can't confirm that for this sword but perhaps someone can throw some more light on this.

 

As I said, whatever conclusion you arrive at this is still a nice sword.

 

Enjoy.

 

All the best.

[Surfson]

Based on the nakago alone, that looks like a well made sword.  I look forward to hearing more about it.

[Stephen]

books not available, wasn't this a yasukuni smith or am i mixing him up?

[Navymate]

Geraint--Thank you for your observations. I agree with your statements about the difference of placement of the kanji and also the nakago jiri. Those are some of the reasons I keep scratching my head. Admittedly, I am a novice so I don't have the experience in examining and analyzing all the details yet, but I'm working on it. That being said, there seem to be similarities to Kuniteru and/or possibly being associated with Okura Tanrensho Dojo due to timeframe. Maybe it's a wild guess. I appreciate your input, thank you.

 

Robert S.--Thank you, I will post more pictures later to show some of the blade details better.

 

Stephen--If this is indeed a Kuniteru blade, then it is possible yes he could have been a Yasukuni smith. The first link I reference above has the only information I have been able to find about Ikkansai Kuniteru. According to the post he was a student of Yasuhiro and referenced once as Ikkansai Hirokazu. One of my follow up questions would be--if this is a Kuniteru made blade--what are the chances that this would be a sword made with yotetsu since Kunimori signed blades are made with it? I'm probably putting the cart before the horse, so it will be interesting to see what others think.

 

Thank you all for your insight,

Mark

[Navymate]

Here are some more pictures to show the blade in a little better detail. I tried to capture a few different angles. Thanks for taking the time to check it out.

 

Mark

[Navymate]

Here are some approximate measurements:
 

Overall length: 34.8125 inches (88.42375 cm)

Length of Edge (Hamachi): 26.75 inches (67.945 cm)

Length of Nakago:  8.0625 inches (20.47875 cm)

Mihaba (width) at Munemachi:  1.3125 inches (3.33375 cm)

Mihaba (width) at Yokote:  0.875 inch (2.2225 cm)

Length of Kissaki to Yokote:  1.3125 inches (3.33375 cm)

Kasane (thickness):  0.79375 inch (2.016125 cm)

 

Thank you for the help.

Mark

[SwordGuyJoe]

books not available, wasn't this a yasukuni smith or am i mixing him up?

I think that you’re thinking of Kunimori (one of Miyaguchi Ikkansai Toshihiro/Yasuhiro’s mei).

[Navymate]

Here are some approximate measurements:

 

Overall length: 34.8125 inches (88.42375 cm)

Length of Edge (Hamachi): 26.75 inches (67.945 cm)

Length of Nakago:  8.0625 inches (20.47875 cm)

Mihaba (width) at Munemachi:  1.3125 inches (3.33375 cm)

Mihaba (width) at Yokote:  0.875 inch (2.2225 cm)

Length of Kissaki to Yokote:  1.3125 inches (3.33375 cm)

Kasane (thickness):  0.79375 inch (2.016125 cm)

 

Thank you for the help.

Mark

Oops I see I made a mistake. The kasane measurement is incorrect and should be 0.3125 inch and (0.79375 cm).

 

Mark

[Stephen]

Yes, Sir Joseph...thats the smith, sorry for the confusion.

[Navymate]

As I continue my research, I have a couple questions that keep nagging at me and wanted to ask more experienced collectors than myself. First is in regards to care, as I’m sure you all have noticed that the nakago has developed some light red rust. I have read the recommendations that say to never touch the nakago and leave it alone. I’ve also seen where some suggest to stop the active rust by wiping the nakago down with oil and a clean section of rag. Should I leave it alone or wipe it with oil? This sword is probably not near as nice as what most of you are used to, however, as the current caretaker I want to make sure I treat it with respect and care for it properly.

 

My second question is this: Can you tell if the sword is made of yo-tetsu aka Western steel by the pictures? I will preface this question by saying I’m assuming that it is not possible to answer accurately without the sword being in proper polish or without having the blade physically in hand. However, in case I’m wrong about that assumption I thought I should ask more experienced collectors.

 

The reason I ask about yo-tetsu is that I have not been able to find much information about Kuniteru (if that translation is indeed accurate) other than a few references. One of which is a post in which a book titled, “Modern Japanese Swords: The Beginning of the Gendaito era Paperback – July 21, 2015 by Mr Leon Kapp (Author), Ms Hiroko Kapp (Author), Mr Leo Monson (Author)”  is being discussed.

 

Link: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/17425-new-book-out-modern-Japanese-swords-the-beginning-of-the-gendaito-era/

 

One of the threads says the book mentions a “Ryujin Ikkansai Kuniteru” blade/smith. The post also mentions a review by “Chris A. Bowen” (which if it is actually him, then he is obviously well known and respected) in which the review mentions inconsistencies and errors in the book, but also mentions the mei Kunimori and his well-known yo-tetsu connection.

 

Another tidbit of information I have found was a post in which a member posted a similar mei for a Ikkansai Kuniteru Ryu Jin sword. In subsequent posts it was suggested that his sword may have been made of yo-tetsu like those with the Kunimori mei (due to the idea that Kuniteru was a student of Miyaguchi Ikkansai aka Yasuhiro). Personally, since this is coming from Chris Bowen, who is in high regard for his knowledge of Nihonto, I trust his assessment.  

 

Link:   http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12933-yasukuni-swords-in-type-3-mounts/page-2

 

“cabowen said:

 

Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:47 AM

Rare mei. I don't think I have seen another. Must have worked with Miyaguchi at the Okura Tanrenjo. Probably also made of yotetsu like the Kunimori mei Miyaguchi blades.”

 

Additionally, I will have to acknowledge what Geraint had discussed previously about the inconsistencies with the other Ryu Jin Kuniteru mei that was posted up as a comparison. As I continue to research this, I have more questions than answers, such as why the “Kuni” kanji on my blade is more similar to the way Kunimori signed, rather than the “Kuni” kanji on the other Ryu Jin Ikkansai Kuniteru mei posted by another member? The placement of the signature is different as well.

 

So, what do the rest of you think?

 

Thank you for taking the time to help,

Mark

[Brian]

Chris has good knowledge of Gendai swords and smiths.