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nagamaki - Franco

Nthk Npo Shinsa

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Hello,

 

Curios, is 76 + points in the NTHK NPO point system considered equivalent to NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon? How did people perceive the Chicago shinsa (point) results, low, spot on, high-generous?

 

Years ago Allan H. Pressley would write up great reports on the NTHK shinsa results including such things as pass/fail numbers, the results and his thoughts on swords he submitted, all of which was very informative especially to novices like myself at the time. It would be nice to see a similar type write up again.

 

Thank you.

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Anything above 71 is equivalent to TBH level as far as I recall

 

From my observations the points are given out rather generously. You hardly see something at 69 or 70 points. But could of course also be because there is either not much lowe end stuff submitted or it does not get papered.

 

Personally I would not give too much on the point system.

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I have had two blades submitted and do not know the results yet but am very excited to find out.

 

Was anybody at the show? I would love to hear some gossip on the Shinsa. I hope you all had favorabkle Shinsa results.

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I was 2 for 3.  A 75 rating (Bishu Osafune Norimitsu Wakizashi1462) and a 74 rating (Yoshisuke Tanto Uno kubi-zukuri style).

 

My failing Katana was a long shot with an extremely faint and suspect signature....but I had an extra slot so it was worth a try.

 

Great show for me...didn't buy much but enjoyed looking and learning.

 

Ben

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This might be the last year that Miyano San comes for shinsa and I submitted 19 items.  Two failed, including the Mutsu Tadayoshi that Luis and Ray didn't like.  The others all passed, including ones that we have talked about on the NMB, such as the Osaka Tsumbo Nagatsuna, the Saemonojo Nobukuni tachi and the Settsu Nagashige that has the huge "story" carved into it (see the "big box, big story thread").  Other ones that I was pleased about included a Bizen Norimitsu dated in the 1450s, a very early Tosa Yoshimitsu and a signed and dated Higo Kikuchi Kunifusa tanto.  My points ranged from 74 for one or two items to 78, for some koshirae that they told me I was "invited" to submit for Yushu papers.  Most of my pieces got a 75 or 76.  I talked with Derek, a nice guy who was helping Chris Bowen with the management of the flow of swords, and it was his impression that the overall fail rate was about 30%, give or take.  Chris estimated that the total submissions were going to be around 400, but interest accelerated during the show and by the end there were many more people wanting slots than the team had time accommodate, so it may have been more.  They were working very long hours, and I want to pass along both thanks and congratulations to Chris and the shinsa team for a great event.  That is about all the information I have about it. 

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i submitted 5, 4 passed. Chris commented that the quality of items in general was higher than they had seen in the past so that may explain the better than usual pass rate if it is higher (i don't know the numbers ). In my experience the points were in line with past shinsa but you do have to remember that the 2 groups have a slightly different system or something so you can't compare points from a NTHK (Yoshikawa) paper and NTHK-NPO, but you can look at past NTHK-NPO shinsa (Tampa, Minneapolis) and they seem in line.  They were working hard. Saturday late morning the announced there were a few re ahead of schedule and within minutes there was a line of people trying to submit.

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hello Bob,

 

congrats on your great results! I am happy that your Saemonojo Nobukuni passed. A really nice sword! Please show us some images of it! Also I'd love to see some images of your mounts that did so well. Come on! The Tadayoshi was a sucker blade! You better had spent that money on drinks :rotfl:

 

I am now very curious to hear back how the two blades did that I had submitted.

 

Overall I think teh boards members here submitted some really nice blades and I am happy to hear that the Shinsa stood up to the expectations.

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Great thread, I was wondering about some of the pass/fail and ranking stats!!  This was my first submission to a shinsa, and I was 5 for 5 passed.  Four blades with 2 at 75 points and 2 at 76 points, along with a koshirae at 76 points.  The two blades at 76 points I was pretty confident in, however the two at 75 came out better than I was expecting.  A very pleasant surprise.  The koshirae I was hoping for more info from the team, but they did confirm it was late Edo, which helps.  Overall, it was a great experience and I'm pleased with the outcome.  Thanks to Chris and the NTHK-NPO for putting this on.  Also, thanks to Mark for a great show!!  I've been to a few in Chicago and always had a good time, always plenty to see and people always willing to answer my noob questions!!

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Hello all,

 

I can continue, I was not able to be present there by myself, but got excellent service and help from Chris and Joe. I was happy with the results, 6/7 passing and points ranging from 75 to 77. Link to another thread where the copies of worksheets are is below:

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/25514-another-shinsa-translation-help/

 

Br,

Antti

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I got asked a lot about the percentage of passes.  I saw almost every sword and paper Friday through Sunday, and to be honest, I didn’t keep track.  The shinsa team did comment that they were really impressed by the quality of swords this time, and that it rivaled or bettered the quality of swords they usually see at shinsa in Japan.  I think 70-80 % pass for a ballpark guess.  Maybe 400 swords roughly.  The majority of the fails were not a surprise to me, or the owners.  I noticed maybe three that got bounced that I really liked.  I was very surprised at the number of really quality swords that are quietly held in collections, and no one ever sees.  About five swords and two koshirae really blew me away.

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As time passes, the corresponding table between the different organizations kanteisho is less and less true, even more since NTHK split with the creation of the NPO organization.

 

I had a private talk with a friend about kanteisho. He told me that since NBTHK has a competition system for higher kanteisho, some yushu blades would hardly get NBTHK TH nowadays.

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That is true Jean. It does not seem that a comparison table (based on the point system) is even applicable anymore as the NTHK and NBTHK have very different evaluation criteria. Consider the shinto or later mumei swords which receive 76 points or higher, but would not qualify to receive anything above Hozon (due to the absence of a mei). Others I have seen with a lower point score, but having the required attributes, I felt would easily pass Tokubetsu Hozon if submitted.

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I submitted a mumei wakizashi that was judged to be Den Bingo Kai Mihara Masashige, Tenbun era, with a score of 74 so not too bad. Kinda funny, when I bought the blade I thought it might be Mihara school, but after trying to research and getting some very good advice, I thought it might be Mino, Zenjo school... and it came back full circle to Kai Mihara.

 

Just wondering if there were any surprises, or exceptional scores that the Shinsa team awarded?

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I'm very glad that this thread has developed. This Chicago show was a big success in large part because of the Shinsa. Of course the Show itself was well run. There were lots of people there and lots to look at. The Shinsa certainly added to the mix. It, too, was very well run and I think Chris did a great job of moving items thru and finding room for last minute additions and discoveries. Finally, I have to say that the shinsa team worked very hard. I watched some items go thru th line and there was lots of attention and discussion.Of course folks might disagree with the assessments, BUT the team clearly worked hard coming to their decisions.

Are there down sides and/or negatives to the shinsa? Well yes. The team member were some busy upstairs that we didn't get to spend time with them. I really wish that Chris and the visitors had been free to spend more time at the Show.

Peter

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Just to add my experience to the lot, I had an Inaba Tadakuni Katana that passed with 76 points.  It papered to the 2nd generation.  I was very happy with the Shinsa all around.

 

John

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Hello,

 

As per request, here are few photos after polish from mine, not all though as I have not taken photos yet from them.

First three photos: Wakasa no kami Ujifusa

Next four: Shodai Shigetaka

Three from: Hiroshige

Four: Muneaki

 

Br,

 

Antti

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I mailed in a hirazukuri ko-wakizasi that passed as den osafune yasumitsu which I'm very pleased with. After polish the hada in particular looked like later muromachi although it was dated oei (half the signature was too faded) although everything else fitted oei bizen. No idea on points yet.

 

I'll see if i can find some photo's.

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Just back from vacation, thanks for the easy to catch up on the Chicago Show thread! That's a whole lotta swords passing.

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