Tsuba maybe Jingo Master ?

[Guest Lee]

Hello,

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this Tsuba ? Has silver zogan on the Dragon.

 

 

Lee

[Curran]

Late Edo Shoami.

 

Not Jingo.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Lee, Certainly a copy of Jingo work. Here is a link to the shodai, $10,500. The jigane on the Jingo tsuba is really the evident difference. John

 

http://www.ricecracker.com/japanese_swo ... apage1.htm

[Guest Lee]

Thank you !

 

I do not have any books on Tosogu . Jigane is the metal it is made of right ! This tsuba is 3.31"x3.11" Tachi size ? Please look at my other post on a Tsuba.

 

 

Lee

[Brian]

Thanks for that Curran. For the benefit of those just starting out with tsuba, would you care to offer just a few basic kantei points to look out for on this one, that lead to the attribution?

 

Thanks,

Brian

[docliss]

Also, perhaps John could expand on his statement 'Certainly a copy of Jingo work', since I, personally, have difficulty in identifying this. The attached image is of a similar tsuba presently on eBay. John L.

[Rich T]

It is certainly not Jingo, nor Jingo esq. it is about as far away from Jingo as a tsuba can get. I wonder if those silver highlites are not exposed bare metal ?, there are several places with them and the edges of the hitsu ana are one of them.

 

This has Mito over tones, I do not think it Shôami either. It is a fairly average looking mid to late Edô period tsuba I think. Sorry.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[John A Stuart]

Hi John, I was comparing it to the one on ricecrackers site. Although the workmanship is not quite as good they show characteristics in common, that is also why a Shoami copy sounds plausible. It surely has that Mito feel also like Rich says but reckoned Shoami as better copyists. Is the one I linked to mis-attributed? Catalogs printed or on the web are the source of most of my experience except for the few specimens I manage to get. I hope this is not a case of faulty info. John

[docliss]

Dear John, in common with both you and Richard, I too would have instinctively labelled Lee's tsuba as late Edo, Aizu Shoami or Mito work. As I am sure that you are aware, tsuba with dragons weaving their way in and out through the hira are ubiquitous, but the one you linked us to on Ricecracker.com is a completely different story. It is superb Jingo work, with the dragon rendered entirely in silver inlay although oxidation makes it difficult to appreciate the impact of this.

 

John L.

[Guest Lee]

Hi,

 

The Dragon looks to be carved on the Tsuba I posted.

 

 

Lee

[Rich T]

Hi John A, one of the characteristics, as I am sure you are aware, of Jingo guards are their hitsu. The are usually one of several things, large, or a specific shape, or as in the case of the Rickcracker tsuba, largish and uneven. The hitsu on the tsuba above are typical Kyoto style, seen in a whole range of work, including Higo, but not I think Jingo, not in Ita tsuba anyway. John L is correct with his noting of the weaving dragon, this is seen in Mito work commonly, as well as other groups also.

 

Shoami were probably making some of the better guards towards the end of the Edo period. They did not all need to copy other groups.

 

Lee, yes, your dragon is carved. The iron has been hammered to give it more of a rustic look.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[John A Stuart]

Hi Rich, Your right, copy being a misnomer. It was the thematic similarities and tsuchime that made me believe the the artist had Jingo work in mind as a basis of his tsuba. Of course much Mito had similar technique on poorer(word?) iron. I must say I would love to handle that Jingo tsuba. John

[Curran]

Dear Brian,

 

I know I should have explained more. Apologies.

 

It was mostly a shoot-from-the-hip based on repetitive experience. Tsuba was very un-Jingo. My immediate thought was Mito Shoami or Aizu Shoami. In a nutshell: the weaving dragon and how it is engraved, the sort of mimi, the hitsu ana, and on and on....

 

Owned one or two like this when I started collecting. Not a bad place to start, but it is not on the level with the true Jingo stuff. Incidentally, I am in the minority in not liking the one on Ricecracker. I dont think it is that good of a Jingo. When I think Jingo, I think something like this: http://www.pbase.com/joanseeuw/image/76409276

 

I'll buy that one, if I can find a good local bank to rob.

(joking, honestly Feds.... joking!)

[docliss]

Lee might be interested to see the attached image. Sadly, it is not a 'Jingo tsuba', but is of a similar dragon theme and illustrates well, I think, what a 'strong Jingo influence' can look like.

 

Regards, John L.

[Guest Lee]

Hi,

 

Hey guy's Look what I found. One is from ricecracker and the other is forsale. One is 1st generation and the other is 3rd generation. Both are Higo !Look how close they are . They must have copied themselves on this one .

 

 

Lee

[Ford Hallam]

Here you go fellas, this is what you are talking about. These 2 excellent, classic examples are taken form the recently published catalogue of Hirata and Shimizu work by Mr Ito. These are scanned images so you can get an idea of the quality of the printing, well worth the outlay if you're into Higo work. The sister volume on Nishigaki Kanshiro is equally lovely.

 

 

 

They are both probably in need of a little tender care but the unique quality of the iron is still clearly evident.

 

As far as I can see, the example supposedly by the first master, shown above, looks like the work of the second master. They really are very different in terms of workmanship. I saw this particular tsuba when it was auctioned in London in July 2005, at Sotheby's. Then it was classified as nidai.

[Guest Lee]

Hi Ford,

 

Great pictures.

I found out today that the Gold Jingo Dragon Tsuba I posted is for sale . $44,000 dollars .

 

Lee

[Ford Hallam]

the Gold Jingo Dragon Tsuba I posted is for sale . $44,000 dollars .

 

a tad expensive methinks

 

glad you like the photos of the Shodai's work I posted.

 

regards, Ford

[Ford Hallam]

I thought I should add that if you look at the 2 examples of Shodai Jingo tsuba I posted you will easily see the cross-hatched cutting over the dragons. This is obviously evidence that these designs were initially covered with silver overlay. The problem with silver nunome zogan is that it corrodes fairly easily. Even work produced in the Meiji period is often all but tarnished away.

 

I think what many of us would recognise as classic Jingo would be the bold brass/shinchu type inlays, the famous eagle for instance. Next would be these silver nunome types, but as I have explained, they rarely have any silver remaining.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a solid silver inlay on these types of tsuba though. Considering the prevailing aesthetic in Higo province at the time it would seem just a bit flashy perhaps, whereas at least with nunome the surface can be polished through a little to create a worn effect.

[rkg]

Hey guys,

 

One of the items I shot for the next KTK exhibition catalog was what I believe is a first Jingo - a decent one is amazingly good (I feel honored to have been able to study it for a while while I photographed it - the composition and jigane

is enough to make you quit collecting pre-edo stuff :-) ), and has little to do with the original image posted.

 

In response to the fine crosshatching in the last post, while this is often the case, On the jingo I photographed it

appears that the crosshatching was very deliberately and carefully filled with brass by the maker to give the

impression of worn away inlay.

 

As an aside, I have a ko-shoami piece where you can see the crosshatching and the remnants of a silver coating which

I'd guess was originally applied in such a way as it would wear off very quickly producing this effect - isn't that called

surikomi zogan?

 

Best,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

[Bungo]

" As an aside, I have a ko-shoami piece where you can see the crosshatching and the remnants of a silver coating which

I'd guess was originally applied in such a way as it would wear off very quickly producing this effect - isn't that called

surikomi zogan?"

 

I had a NTBHK papered kamon tsuba, attributed to ko-shoami with the cross hatching.

 

I also have a owari-ish ( or shoami ) sukashi tsuba completely covered with silver nunome.

 

milt

[Guido]

Here's an example of the crosshatching Ford mention with the silver still (more or less) intact; sold by Ginza Choshuya in May of 2005 for reasonable 450,000 Yen:

[Ford Hallam]

ah! yes,... the very rare corduroy textured ground

[Guido]

ah! yes,... the very rare corduroy textured ground

LOL, that's the result of re-sizing the scan, something the software is responsible for; the original Tsuba lacks this special feature ...

[Guest Lee]

Hello,

Place in Europe is selling the $44,000 Jingo Tsuba.

 

 

 

 

Lee

[Guido]

Ford, this time not a trick of the eye: another Tsuba from Ginza Choshuya, signed Saotome Ietada. The decoration technique is called Shino-yasuri - I proudly present the famous corduroy textured Tsuba!

[Ford Hallam]

Excellent :D thanks Guido I knew it was out there.

 

and I hadn't heard the term " Shino yasuri" before, thanks.

 

regards, Ford