Suggestions Please

[Ooitame]

Hello all, I am thinking about trying laido, and who knows maybe tameshagiri. But there are quite a few choices for blades. What are your thoughts on a modern work yet still somewhat traditonal... at around 500$, or should I get a real yet semi beat up older nihonto for about the same price?

[EastCoast]

Call me later. There is another site that reviews modern blades for this purpose. There are some that reviewed as "good" that are on Amazon for < $150.

[AndyMcK]

Eric, if I understand you correctly, you are about to begin the training? If that is so, you are not in a hurry with acquiring sharp blade to train with. Learn technique on both before attempting to use sharp one. You will also learn from your sensei what kind of blade you will need if he is worth his salt.

 

Good luck on your training!

 

-Antti

[Ooitame]

Hi Annti, thanks, bokken and iaito are already available. I should have been more specific, I was asking about shinken.

Hi James, will do.

[TheGermanBastard]

Hello Eric, if I remember correctly you have bought a Wakizashi. This could be an excellent choice for your cutting pratice.

[ROKUJURO]

Eric,

in case you are 'thinking about trying IAIDO' (and perhaps TAMESHIGIRI - not tameshagiri), you need a competent teacher first. IAIDO is not practiced with sharp blades unless you are a highly graded master of the art.

[Ooitame]

Hi Lewis, I am curious as to that wakazashi cutting ability as his grand father was ryo wazamano and his uncle sajo wazamano; maybe it passed down. In addition, that blade was made when the smith was head of that school for ~25 years. So it might have the ability, but it wont see that kind of abuse... I will be left forever curious.

 

Hi Jean, you are correct.

[TheGermanBastard]

Don't be shy! Give it a try! This smith could be Sajo Wazamono, too! But it needs verification thus requires more field research! Kee up the great work and make this smith great again!

[Ooitame]

Luis, not sure if your being serious or sarcastic?

[EastCoast]

Eric - He is being very serious....

 

Hey Luis - Send Eric that video of you buttering your morning toast with that one Juyo blade.

[TheGermanBastard]

It may be just a little swing for Eric but a great step forward for the sword community to see how well this great smith performes in cutting. We need more first hand research from brave enthusiasts like Eric. I look forward to hearing your resulst on the potential Wazamono level your your sword. Please keep us posted.

[Ooitame]

Well this thread took a turn. All things considered, I like my steaks well done so if any blade can cut through that, then definetly worthy of fame; IMHO.

[TheGermanBastard]

So did you try it on a steak? Was it a T-Bone steak? If yes, how well did it cut through the bone?

[Jean]

How do you define wazamono? I mean, what are the cutting tests to be performed to be classified as wazamono?

[Ooitame]

Hey Jean, that is a good question. I know there are many types of cuts. I will try to describe the best I can, nagamich 1 is reported to have a sword cut through three bodies, so I can assume this is an horizaontal abdomen cut, ninodo. To have a family style comparison cut would be most appropriate, I suppose that would do. Rio kuruma, being the ultimate test. However, what I consider a true test is th 45degree angle cut through the collar bone, ribs, sternum, and spine, okesa. As that is a natural draw and strike motion, assuming arms and hands arent viable... I suppose the other two could work if you turn the saya on its side, and you acquire the muscle memory.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Eric, you need a sensei before trying ANYTHING with a sword, iaito or (especially) shinken. Everything else said here is shibai!

[Jean]

In fact, my question is: who estabished the test to classify smiths in different wazamono categories and what was the methodology?

 

In fact, to be thorough, the methodology should include a certain numbers of swords by the same smith

[Ooitame]

Hi Ken, agreed. I have experience with the bokken and the dulled edge sword. Will seek proper guidance for shinken.

Jean, I am not really clear on these intracacies. I believe you are right as a number of swords from the same smith were used. 

[TheGermanBastard]

So you will want to buy / obtain more swords from this smith before your proceed with your cutting tests for better first hand comparision. Best buy also a Saijo Wazamono blade for best comparison. Please keep up the great work and keep us posted,

[PNSSHOGUN]

In fact, my question is: who estabished the test to classify smiths in different wazamono categories and what was the methodology?

 

In fact, to be thorough, the methodology should include a certain numbers of swords by the same smith

https://markussesko.com/2014/07/03/tameshigiri-the-history-and-development-of-Japanese-sword-testing/

 

Excellent book that goes into detail about all of this Jean.

 

Wazamono was granted after a certain number of blades by the smith passed cutting tests and then decided by the Yamada family. If I recall 10/10 blades that executed difficult cuts perfectly by the same smith resulted in Saijo-O-Wazamono ranking, or something along those lines.

[Jean]

So Eric won’t be able to perform a significative cutting test. He is not a professional tester as Yamada family testers

and has not at his disposition several blades of the same smith nor the corpses (I hope ) necessary for the tests.

[vajo]

Hello all, I am thinking about trying laido, and who knows maybe tameshagiri. But there are quite a few choices for blades. What are your thoughts on a modern work yet still somewhat traditonal... at around 500$, or should I get a real yet semi beat up older nihonto for about the same price?

A real old Nihonto for some playing around with a sword? Funny. I would advise to buy a chinese repro for that and not something with a cultural worth. For my eyes it is always funny to see westerness people playing samurai and cutting waterbottles and other things ????

[Ooitame]

Yes many hurdles for an authentic test.

[Guido]

For my eyes it is always funny to see westerness people playing samurai and cutting waterbottles ...

 

As we all know, commoners in Edo period Japan were not allowed to carry and use swords, so many of them threw water bottles to fight samurai. This was so widely practiced, that many martial art schools included suitōgiri 水筒斬り (i.e. water bottle cutting) in their curriculum as a means of defense. However, when Tokugawa Ienari 徳川家斉 made bottle deposits mandatory in Kansei 寛政 6 (1794), the resulting financial constraints put a stop to it for throwers and throwees alike.

[John A Stuart]

Haaaa! Right up there with the giant pipe fights. John

[PNSSHOGUN]

And who can forget the traditional watermelon and cucumber armour that always stopped the blade nanometers from the skin.

[vajo]

Rofl..

When you see the videos of "cold steel" cutting pig heads on youtube then you think they are all crazy and not normal.

[vajo]

Yes many hurdles for an authentic test.

Authentic test? What you think about? Crazy. ????

[PNSSHOGUN]

Cutting pig carcass is actually as close as we can get beyond using cadavers.

 

There are also the extremely realistic medical training "Simbodies" but I think those cost thousands of dollars. Maybe if there are millionaire collectors here they can conduct it, but I will stick to Tatami and Bamboo and modern made swords for the foreseeable future.

[martin hornak]

Well the price for shinken or even showato that you could perfectly practice tameshigiri or even iaido because many showato even non traditional are perfect functionaly for cuting or very good balanced for iaido, or shinshinto swords are often used for this cuting practice together with iaido ...

but for that low price ??? no chance , even showato or some shinshinto swords are cheap , but not that cheap.

you have to evaluate your level higher